WislaHD
Senior Member
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.EX16.1
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denfromoakvillemilton
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TY Wisla
GenerationW
Senior Member
At a recent DRL meeting, it was speculated that the line would likely dip back down to King somewhere west of University in Phase Two. So for those who want that classic Eastern-King-Queen-King-? alignment, you just may win!
Regarding that recent provincial DRL funding announcement and how that money will be used, the DRL study group is waiting for guidance from Metrolinx.
Regarding that recent provincial DRL funding announcement and how that money will be used, the DRL study group is waiting for guidance from Metrolinx.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
This makes no sense. If the DRL runs alomg Queen then it will have to run along Queen west of downtown. Where is it supposed to dip down in the west?
Also having the DRL on Queen but a Libery Village GO stop on King makes no sense, as these stops may eventually connect.
Queen is a bad alignment west of downtown. Almost all the development is along King or south of it. Queen is almost entirely low rise buildings. Also Queen is much worse for serving the Exhibition than King because of the curve in Sudbury St.
smallspy
Senior Member
The preliminary engineering assessments indicate that the alignment is able to dive under all of the buildings in the Queen/Sumach/King area (not to mention all of the buildings south and west of the corner of Queen and Carlaw). What makes you think that it can not done in the same manner to the west of downtown?
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
WislaHD
Senior Member
How is Queen a bad alignment west of downtown? Queen is right smack in the heart of Trinity-Bellwoods, West Queen West, Little Portugal and Parkdale.
It is only 350 meters north of King Street, most people in the suburbs walk further to reach their bus stop! Queen Street alignment is well within the catchment area of Liberty Village, which would also have the benefit of the King Streetcar transit-mall if the GO-RER/SmartTrack fare ends up being too much.
Maybe we should build more pedestrian connections over the rail corridor to give Liberty Village better access to Queen.
The Exhibition grounds are better served by Waterfront LRT.
It is only 350 meters north of King Street, most people in the suburbs walk further to reach their bus stop! Queen Street alignment is well within the catchment area of Liberty Village, which would also have the benefit of the King Streetcar transit-mall if the GO-RER/SmartTrack fare ends up being too much.
Maybe we should build more pedestrian connections over the rail corridor to give Liberty Village better access to Queen.
The Exhibition grounds are better served by Waterfront LRT.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Euphoria
Active Member
Queen and King aren't so far apart at Sudbury St. A Liberty Village ST station could run its platforms between King and Queen, albeit closer to King so that the southern ends of the platforms are quickly accessed from Liberty Village and the King streetcar. An indoor walkway from a future DRL station at Queen and Gladstone would make the northern ends of the ST platforms easily accessed by DRL riders.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
Queen Street west of University is almost all low rise buildings. The high-rise buildings are almost all along King or further south. The only destination of any significance along Queen Street West is the CAMH.
A Queen alignment serves Exhibition Place really poorly because of the curve in Sudbury Street. The difference in walking distance to Exhibition Place between the King and Queen alignments is a lot longer than the distance between King and Queen would suggest. A subway station near King & Atlantic would be about 500m from Exhibition Place while a subway along Queen would probably require walking all the way to Queen & Dufferin, which is about 1.4km from Exhibition GO station (which is near BMO Field), or walking to somewhere near Queen/Ossington. If the DRL goes west of downtown, then it is going to be heavily used during events at Exhibition Place.
In any case, the DRL needs to connect with the Liberty Village GO station. If this station is closer to King then it should connect to King. If the DRL goes along Queen then the station should be moved to Queen/Dufferin, but this location is very inconvenient for people going to Exhibition Place and is far from most of the residential development in Liberty Village.
LRT is useless for serving Exhibition Place because it does not have the capacity to handle crowds during the CNE. The 509 streetcar is extremely busy during the CNE. Also the Lakeshore GO line will need major upgrades to handle 30000/hour once it charges TTC fares, if the DRL goes along Queen, to prevent overcrowding.
44 North
Senior Member
Definitely think the DRL's westward scope should be expanded so that the points you mention can be included in the current debate. Whether it's on Queen or King, it's obvious that a subway across the south end of Old Toronto is warranted and has been for some time (i.e many decades). I think the points you made about peak loads for TOFC, Exhibition Place, and connections to GO stations at LV or Dufferin should all be part of the current discussion. Whether we extend the DRL west of Osgoode this century remains to be seen. But the merits of which route is better west of Osgoode should no doubt be considered in the current debate about the section east of Osgoode. Only logical that it should be.
Thirty-some years ago in the original DRL/DRT debate the points you brought up were also an important issue. And just like we're doing today, we also chose to relegate the portion west of the CBD to a later phase (tho in 1985 it was west of Spadina instead of University). But either way the points about connecting to places west of the core like the Ex were seemingly considered more heavily than they are today.
Edit to add: another reason why I think this type of broader, more holistic approach is beneficial is because it can help decide aspects (e.g alignment, investment, stops, etc) of other projects in the process. In this case I guess it'd be things like the WWLRT, location of new GO stations, a King transit mall, and maybe even the Jane LRT as well.
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Forgotten
Active Member
False. The city is not supporting the market. The market wants 25 storey buildings. The city wants to maintain the heritage low-rise Victorian character of Queen from Church to Pape.
Translude15
Frank the Tank
The two reasons I can think of diverting the DRL onto King west of Spadina or Bathurst would be a) connecting with the recently proposed GO-RER station at Liberty Village (on King) and b) the GO-RER connection at Roncesvalles-Sunnyside, that is if the DRL has to swing north to Dundas West station via Roncesvalles.
A Queen-Roncesvalles alignment would put a Sunnyside station either too far east or too far north of the GO-RER stop to make the connection feasible. Having the DRL on King would allow the DRL stop to be placed in closer proximity to GO. Bringing the DRL up Parkside/Keele or even Sunnyside Ave. would obviously negate the need for a King alignment.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Looking at Metrolinx's current "Network Vision":
The relief line could end up from Dundas West Station on Line 2, through downtown, then up Pape & Don Mills to end up past Sheppard, past Finch, to maybe Highway 7 in Markham?
Wonder what the bookmakers in England have the odds on this at?
The relief line could end up from Dundas West Station on Line 2, through downtown, then up Pape & Don Mills to end up past Sheppard, past Finch, to maybe Highway 7 in Markham?
Wonder what the bookmakers in England have the odds on this at?
Attachments
Euphoria
Active Member
Okay, it needs to be said so we don't wait half a century for a subway network we should have now: The first phase of DRL should reach Queen and Gladstone/Dufferin. Stations at Spadina, Bathurst, Shaw (serving Trinity Bellwoods and Ossington at either end of the platforms), and Gladstone makes perfect sense in terms of creating a sense of completeness and connectivity to ST. The land at CAMH is the perfect site to start the boring.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
God, I hope when they do eventually extend the subway west they don't cheapen out and build a single station at Shaw as opposed to two separate stops at Niagara and Dovercourt.