Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[ADRM]

Without knowing exactly what was said on the news report, I'm not sure any of that is news beyond what has been previously reported.

The province's $150M funding envelope was intended to get the project to shovel-ready, and we knew this staff report was coming.

The mayor's office expects to get at least $4B from the federal government, but it's unclear how much of that would or could be dedicated to the relief line. That's not new, either.

We also won't know final costs until 2019, and Peter Wallace confirmed this week that the city has neither the money currently available, nor the capacity to add additional debt, to finance its portion of the cost for this. So, if the feds come through with their 40% of the total cost, and if the province pledges somewhere around 40% as a pre-election promise (a not unsubstantial "if" given how Tory is going about his relationship with them right now), and if we assume the cost doesn't increase significantly beyond the current estimate ($6.8B), then the city still has to come up with a new revenue tool to raise its ±20%.

So, unfortunately, we're not there yet. Too many "ifs" to be anything close to celebrating right now.

 

[Hopkins123]

I hope some influential people put in a good word for adding back stations at Parliament and Mortimer, the greatest flaw/omissions of the current plan.

 

[nfitz]

The problem is that to raise the Don Valley Parkway to a height that would not flood, would mean the raising, not one, but several bridges. And at a high cost.

Not sure you'd have to raise the top surface, but redesign/rebuild, so skinnier and increased clearance.

Several? It's not the whole thing that floods. Eastern, Queen, Dundas, and Gerrard at worst (and the pedestrian bridge in Riverdale Park - but that shouldn't be too expensive).

But where exactly does it flood? I don't think it's all of them. And it doesn't have to be 1,000-year storm, as long as it isn't flooding a few times a decade.

Though the DVP is really a different issue than the rail corridor, where you don't need as much clearance.

 

[nfitz]

While it's true that they've been "talking about" this line for 50 years, this round of planning is the first and only time it's been planned in complete detail, with significant funds committed. Other rounds of planning were completely conceptual in nature. Not that it negates anything you've said.

I'm not sure the late 1960s plans were completely conceptual. I thought they were more advanced than the current plans are now. Significant funds committed - well hand-waved ... there's more hope than there's been in 30-some years ...

But I don't disagree!

 

[nfitz]

I hope some influential people put in a good word for adding back stations at Parliament and Mortimer, the greatest flaw/omissions of the current plan.

They haven't done station selection north of Danforth yet - so that's still on the table. It's listed in an upcoming phase for the north line.

As for Parliament, with an exit just west of Ontario/Queen you are only a 250 metre walk away. And another at King and Bright Street is only 450 metres on the other side, to King/Parliament.

Looking at the distances between the platforms, it's only just over 600 metres now between the two stations. You add in a 155-metre platform, and you are looking at only about 230 metres or so between stations.

Personally, I'd prefer a better walking/cycling connection from King and Richmond/Adelaide to Richmond/Parliament to reconnect Corktown. I don't see why that flyover has to be such a barrier. At a minimum, reconnecting Sackville would help, and provide better walking access to the new station.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I just hope it's a proper high capacity subway, with compatible vehicles to the existing lines, as opposed to another Eglinton Crosstown LRT set-up.

 

[nfitz]

I just hope it's a proper high capacity subway, with compatible vehicles to the existing lines, as opposed to another Eglinton Crosstown LRT set-up.

The only real cost difference between piece of Eglinton in a subway and Downtown is the station length - and they are already talking about 150-metre platforms, so I'd assume so.

There's recent projections out there for up to 16,000 riders at the peak point on the Relief Line short (from Danforth to University). I don't recall seeing recent projections for the Relief Line long from Sheppard to University but an earlier Metrolinx study put the additional contribution to the peak point at 8,400 (and only 300, if they went short, but extended west in a U up to Bloor). So ultimately, even in a few decades, you are potentially looking at 25,000 at peak point.

The only real case for LRT would be if you wanted to continue north of Overlea or Science Centre station as centre-of-the-median LRT - which I'd think would have some attraction, especially for those that see a transfer as a human right violation.

 

[crs1026]

The only negative in this is the absence of any momentum on extending the line further west. I wonder whether they ought to be doing the BCA on that part concurrent with the north portion. Otherwise, it won't get moving for a very long time.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The only negative in this is the absence of any momentum on extending the line further west. I wonder whether they ought to be doing the BCA on that part concurrent with the north portion. Otherwise, it won't get moving for a very long time.

- Paul

I wouldn't say there's no momentum on the western portion. Planning for the western extension was always intended to begin after planning for the northern extension was (nearly) complete. City Planning has now begin design work on Relief Line North. We have dedicated funds for planning Relief Line West, and planning for that phase should begin in three or four years.

 

[Kitsune]

I wouldn't say there's no momentum on the western portion. Planning for the western extension was always intended to begin after planning for the northern extension was (nearly) complete. City Planning has now begin design work on Relief Line North. We have dedicated funds for planning Relief Line West, and planning for that phase should begin in three or four years.

Will it take that long ? Afterall they want the Relief Line North where the planning for the Relief Line south is in only 1 year or less (Preferred route and Stations by Q1 2018). By that, we could see Relief Line West sometime in 2019. Still think they should of atleast connected Phase 1 with the two N/S streetcar routes on Spadina and Bathurst.

 

[44 North]

If the line is only going as far west as Osgoode, where are they going to extract the TBMs? In the centre of Queen Street, or Osgoode Hall's lawn? That wouldn't make sense. Best to bring it as far west as possible in the initial run, and the only way to do that is by studying for it today.

 

[nfitz]

If the line is only going as far west as Osgoode, where are they going to extract the TBMs? In the centre of Queen Street, or Osgoode Hall's lawn? That wouldn't make sense. Best to bring it as far west as possible in the initial run, and the only way to do that is by studying for it today.

Based on the last version of drawings I saw posted, the box would extend as far east as the edge of Nathan Phillips Square. But they have that massive parking between there and Bay Street - how deep is that?

Looks to be about 230 metres between the station boxes for Queen and Osgoode stations. I'd assume they'd pull it out east of Yonge.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Based on the last version of drawings I saw posted, the box would extend as far east as the edge of Nathan Phillips Square. But they have that massive parking between there and Bay Street - how deep is that?

Looks to be about 230 metres between the station boxes for Queen and Osgoode stations. I'd assume they'd pull it out east of Yonge.
View attachment 108476

Still pissed about that platform alignment at Osgoode. Would have made for a good west entrance/exit towards Queen and John area.

 

[Kitsune]

Still pissed about that platform alignment at Osgoode. Would have made for a good west entrance/exit towards Queen and John area.

Its only preminlary. They stated they had to choose that location as 250 University would interfere with the standard Station Box, and once detailed planning starts they will see if they can modify it. Its also the same case for Yonge.

 

[torontologist]

If the line is only going as far west as Osgoode, where are they going to extract the TBMs? In the centre of Queen Street, or Osgoode Hall's lawn? That wouldn't make sense. Best to bring it as far west as possible in the initial run, and the only way to do that is by studying for it today.

THIS. Phase 1 should go to at least Trinity Bellwoods, if not High Park. Takes care of the TBM extraction pit situation. Then they can focus on the Don Mills extension for the next 30 years without worrying about street-level congestion in the West End.