Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

TheTigerMaster said:
Steve Munro had a Q&A with Metrolinx on the Ontario Line: https://stevemunro.ca/2020/02/03/ontario-line-questions-answers/

Steve's questions were valuable, but predictably, Metrolinx provided next to no meaningful answers.
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From the Q&A

Q17: A new role identified in published reports for the OL is relief of GO Transit’s Lake Shore corridor and Union Station. Do you have demand modelling that shows this effect and can I get those numbers?

A: During the modelling for the Ontario Line Initial Business Case, we found that providing very fast and easy transfers at Exhibition Station and East Harbour Station led to high numbers of passengers transferring from GO to the Ontario Line, which offloads Union Station. Ontario Line will reduce the number of GO passengers passing through Union Station by13% overall in the busiest peak hour. An update to this modelling will be reflected in the Preliminary Design Business Case, due this summer.
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I have a hard time believing that, especially given the OL capacity constraints

Q19: Do you have updated demand projections for the Yonge subway north and south of Bloor based on the relief the OL will provide?

A: We have modelled reductions in passenger volumes, which are detailed on pages 53 and 54 of the Initial Business Case. An update to this modelling will be reflected in the Preliminary Design Business Case, due this summer.

Steve: The information in the IBC gives percentage reductions relative to “Business As Usual” but not numeric values. Of particular concern is the degree to which any capacity released in the network will immediately be backfilled by latent demand.
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I'd also mention that it's notable that no modelling has been provided whatsoever for long term crowding relief on Line 1 north of Eglinton. Likely because doing so would reveal that the Ontario Line is completely ineffective at relieving Yonge Line capacity constraints north of Eglinton in the long term.

Everyone should be reminded of this map, showing that in just 10 years (same time as the OL opening), Line 1 will be operating between 75 and 100% of capacity as far north as Sheppard. When the OL is 10 years old, in 2040, this entire segment will likely be at 100% capacity. OL does nothing to address this, and will not be able to address this in the future. I anticipate that more up-to-date modelling would show even more crowding, due to Toronto's increasing population growth rate. The inability of the Ontario Line to achieve its primary goal of providing long term Yonge Line crowding relief is a fairly critical flaw in the proposal.

slack-imgs-com-png.113504
 
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p_xavier said:
It's too bad that with the Union Station TTC station renovations that new platforms weren't build to section the line into two separate lines. The diagram says it all.
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I don't think there's even room to do that at Union Station without massive disruptions.

It would probably involve adding a new set of platforms underneath the existing ones, and regrading one set of tracks to lead to the new platforms- not a small task, as the Union Station project has already demonstrated.
 
Union relief could occur more in the west at Liberty Village particularly since it's a terminal station and can connect with both Exhibition and the new King Liberty station to intercept all incoming GO riders from the west.

And interchange via a concourse above the subway station that's below the GO stations which can also include a streetcar loop for the Harbourfront and Bathurst streetcars.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
From the Q&A



I have a hard time believing that, especially given the OL capacity constraints



I'd also mention that it's notable that no modelling has been provided whatsoever for long term crowding relief on Line 1 north of Eglinton. Likely because doing so would reveal that the Ontario Line is completely ineffective at relieving Yonge Line capacity constraints north of Eglinton in the long term.

Everyone should be reminded of this map, showing that in just 10 years (same time as the OL opening), Line 1 will be operating between 75 and 100% of capacity as far north as Sheppard. When the OL is 10 years old, in 2040, this entire segment will likely be at 100% capacity. OL does nothing to address this, and will not be able to address this in the future. I anticipate that more up-to-date modelling would show even more crowding, due to Toronto's increasing population growth rate. The inability of the Ontario Line to achieve its primary goal of providing long term Yonge Line crowding relief is a fairly critical flaw in the proposal.

slack-imgs-com-png.113504
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I'd be very interested to see the timeframe for "AM peak hour" and the metrics behind "over-capacity" they're using here, because 50-74% OC at St. George seems crazy; anytime I transfer eastbound-to-southbound at St. George during the morning rush, I typically have to wait at least one train (and sometimes as many as three) to get on.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Steve Munro had a Q&A with Metrolinx on the Ontario Line: https://stevemunro.ca/2020/02/03/ontario-line-questions-answers/

Steve's questions were valuable, but predictably, Metrolinx provided next to no meaningful answers.
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Look how particularly evasive they are to questions about ridership modelling, demand projections, capacity, and frequency of trains. For example:

Q14: Demand figures have been cited in published reports for all day, peak hour and peak point. It is quite clear that, as with any modelling, you must have detailed numbers station by station along the line. I would like to acquire this information both for on train demand and station usage, broken down by time of day to the extent that this is available.

Metrolinx: We are still looking at options for exact alignment and station location. Planning work is still underway for matters such as this, but once known, it would form the basis of engagement materials we would present to communities in subsequent rounds of consultations.

Steve: This does not answer the question for materials already produced. City and Metrolinx reports include reductions in demand made possible with the OL, and these are clearly based on modelling which Metrolinx will not release.
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Metrolinx discussed changes to Ontario Line with developers in private meeting...

According to Cressy, Metrolinx staff confirmed “they do have other alignment options that they have shared with some stakeholders,” which he took as a reference to developers and landowners.

Cressy said Metrolinx staff refused to reveal at the Jan. 21 meeting what potential changes they had discussed, a decision the councillor described as “deeply concerning.”

“It concerns me greatly if decisions are being made on the location of stations not by the city, not by the public, but rather stakeholders in private,” he said.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rs.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
Another hit piece by the Toronto Star. When it was elevated LRT for folks in Scarborough, it was A-Okay. We never heard anything about the negativities of elevated transit. Now that the Ontario Line is proposing elevated through Leslieville, it's armageddon. How many of the Toronto Star writers are living in Leslieville or close to there. I guess this is what they called Not In My Backyard. I wonder why going underground through here like what the Toronto Star wants isn't being called a waste like what we heard out in Scarborough. Before when OneCity used to make these arguments, I thought he wasn't making much sense, now I see where he is coming from. The hypocrisy in this city is sickening.
 
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.. what the city should do is rush to declare historic anything along the rail line in leslieville .. and then watch them squirm trying to fit everything into the rail corridor. :)
 
salsa said:
Look how particularly evasive they are to questions about ridership modelling, demand projections, capacity, and frequency of trains. For example:
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tiffer24 said:
Metrolinx discussed changes to Ontario Line with developers in private meeting...

According to Cressy, Metrolinx staff confirmed “they do have other alignment options that they have shared with some stakeholders,” which he took as a reference to developers and landowners.

Cressy said Metrolinx staff refused to reveal at the Jan. 21 meeting what potential changes they had discussed, a decision the councillor described as “deeply concerning.”

“It concerns me greatly if decisions are being made on the location of stations not by the city, not by the public, but rather stakeholders in private,” he said.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rs.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Oh, that explains it. Metrolinx is busy trying to gerrymander the line for their private sector friends, hence the secrecy!
 
Adjei said:
Another hit piece by the Toronto Star. When it was elevated LRT for folks in Scarborough, it was A-Okay. We never heard anything negative about the negativities of elevated transit. Now that the Ontario Line is proposing elevated through Leslieville, it's armageddon. How many of the Toronto Star writers are living in Leslieville or close to there. I guess this is what they called Not In My Backyard. I wonder why going underground through here like what the Toronto Star wants isn't being called a waste like what we heard out in Scarborough. Before when OneCity used to make these arguments, I thought he wasn't making much sense, now I see where he is coming from. The hypocrisy in this city is sickening.
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This has nothing to do with negativites of elevated transit or SRT or NIMBYism - it has to do with preferential treatment of who gets to know what goes where. You can't tell the public that everything is up in air, nothing to tell you on one hand, and then turn around and talk to developers that no, really, it's going here and there. It undermines the trustworthiness of the org.

AoD
 
tiffer24 said:
Metrolinx discussed changes to Ontario Line with developers in private meeting...

According to Cressy, Metrolinx staff confirmed “they do have other alignment options that they have shared with some stakeholders,” which he took as a reference to developers and landowners.

Cressy said Metrolinx staff refused to reveal at the Jan. 21 meeting what potential changes they had discussed, a decision the councillor described as “deeply concerning.”

“It concerns me greatly if decisions are being made on the location of stations not by the city, not by the public, but rather stakeholders in private,” he said.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rs.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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There's both positive and negative to take from this. The positive is we might actually get out from under the crappy Queen street line that the city employed Ryerson planning rejects came up with. The negative continues to be Metrolinx insisting on using crappy sardine can Skytrains instead of building the real subways we should be building.
 
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