Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[BurlOak]

Author of the Star article has now tweeted out the earlier version of the Ontario Line map that's referenced in the article.

View attachment 231111

This does look better. The questions it raises.
1) How about moving the TBM launch from King/Sumach to East Harbour Station box - and then continue cut-and-cover from here east and then northwards
2) How was this to get down from Queen - or was Ontario Place not even a destination then?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Why not just build the full DRL then?

 

[BurlOak]

This does look better. The questions it raises.
1) How about moving the TBM launch from King/Sumach to East Harbour Station box - and then continue cut-and-cover from here east and then northwards
2) How was this to get down from Queen - or was Ontario Place not even a destination then?

Here's what I've got for the Relief Line (Yellow), Ontario Line (Orange) and Concept Relief Line (Blue).
The bottom of that blue line appears to avoid residential - so I say continue the cut-and-cover all the way down Pape and around to the East Harbour Station (or possibly just east of it). Based on the Relief Line alignment (where I have drawing), the Carlaw Sanitary Sewer is 12m deep. Hopefully, the blue line can pass over it. Then you simply start the TBM from East Harbour and go westward. This adds about 1km to the TBM length, and 1 emergency exit. But it keeps all construction underground. If you are going to add the extra distance and extra curves to avoid residences @ Eastern/Pape, why not just keep everyone happy.

 

[BurlOak]

Why not just build the full DRL then?

This Preliminary Ontario Line (POL) seems to acknowledge the benefits of building Pape with cut-and-cover. It also recognizes that the Carlaw jog forces the line so deep under that Sanitary sewer (on Carlaw) that it precludes cut-and-cover all the way to Mortimer, which makes the Gerrard and Pape stations, plus the Wye, much more expensive.
Maybe just eliminating the Carlaw jog would have been enough to all the tunnel depth to be greatly reduced, but swinging down and building over a field (after factories demolished) will allow the line to be as shallow as possible (vs. being under Eastern Ave.) to more easily accomplish this.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From that article...

The day of Ford’s April 10, 2019 announcement, few people outside the provincial government could say where the Ontario Line plan had come from. There had been no reports published to support the project, and no public debate on whether it was a good idea.​

​

But a cache of more than 5,600 pages of internal Metrolinx documents reveals the Ontario Line owes its origins to a private consultant, who pitched the concept to the agency’s CEO in January 2019. Just three months later, it was the Ford government’s top transit priority.​

​

The documents, which are emails and reports the Star obtained through a freedom of information request, are heavily redacted. Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency, has censored nearly 4,000 pages, claiming the important transit planning discussions they capture fall under exemptions to freedom of information legislation.​

"The documents, which are emails and reports the Star obtained through a freedom of information request, are heavily redacted. Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency, has censored nearly 4,000 pages, claiming the important transit planning discussions they capture fall under exemptions to freedom of information legislation."

Doug Ford is following in the goosesteps of his idol, Donald Trump, by redacting (def. to select or adapt as by obscuring or removing sensitive information for publication or release) 86% of the documents.

 

[BurlOak]

Wow, truly pathetic.

How Ford’s Ontario Line plan came together in just three months — with secrecy, a shifting route and a consultant

More than 5,600 pages of internal Metrolinx documents reveals the Ontario Line was dreamed up by a private consultant, who pitched the concept in January 2019. Three months later the premier would announce it as the “crown jewel” of his transit plans.

www.thestar.com

A couple of things I don't like here;

According to the emails obtained by the Star, by Nov. 19, 2018, Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster had convened a group to carry out Ford’s mission. Literally called the “Building Subways Quicker” committee, the group was overseen by the most senior officials at Metrolinx and Infrastructure Ontario, and tasked with delivering GTA subway projects as “quickly and efficiently as possible.”

Whereas Rob Ford, within 4 months of taking office, created an MOU to merge the Eglinton LRT with the SRT.
Here, it took Doug 4.5 months just to tell Metrolinx to start looking into it.

“So — having been dismissive of the (relief line), I now think that, re-crafted, it can be a great project,” he wrote in a Jan. 3, 2019 email to Verster, attaching the report.
. . . . .
On Feb. 26, Verster presented the new concept to the premier, who gave it the green light. Verster reported to Metrolinx and IO officials that day that the meeting “went really well” and they could move ahead. But he swore his colleagues to secrecy. “Strict confidentiality applies, do not talk about it,” he cautioned.

So essentially, the plan took 2 months to be derived.

At least Rob management to compromise with the other side to come up with his plan - which some consider the plan transit plan in Toronto for a generation. Unfortunately, the Liberals (the very ones who had helped come up with the combined plan) and Karen Stintz (who was supposed to be a Ford loyalist), went on to sabotage the plan.
Maybe that's why Doug Ford didn't trust anyone. Doug seems to have real trouble telling constructive criticism from those who are trying to sabotage his plans, so he listens to no-one.

 

[floater]

Hello all. Just joined and I guess I may have a stake in this new Line as my house is right at the Millwood bridge. I've been skimming over some posts but there seems to be quite a few to go through so I though I would just ask. Are they planning on building another bridge over the Don Valley just west/south of the Millwood bridge? Or are they likely to just come right across the Millwood bridge and go right under my house? Wondering if I should just sell now!!? Thanks

 

[BurlOak]

Hello all. Just joined and I guess I may have a stake in this new Line as my house is right at the Millwood bridge. I've been skimming over some posts but there seems to be quite a few to go through so I though I would just ask. Are they planning on building another bridge over the Don Valley just west/south of the Millwood bridge? Or are they likely to just come right across the Millwood bridge and go right under my house? Wondering if I should just sell now!!? Thanks

The betting is it will go straight up Pape and out Minton Place - and then yes, just west of the Millwood Bridge.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

 

[floater]

I like that bet. I should be far enough away to feel nothing yet close enough to have the property value go up. Hope it happens in my life time. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Is that private consultant Neptis by any chance?

"No more backroom deals." Doug Ford, August 16, 2018

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1349341

The secret Metrolinx documents also confirmed that the province secretly hired Michael Schabas to oversee the new line and leaked details of Ford's transit plans to the Toronto Sun the day before his announcement.

?? ?‍

Mentioned by name in the article.

AoD

And so it is.

 

[Allandale25]

Here's what I've got for the Relief Line (Yellow), Ontario Line (Orange) and Concept Relief Line (Blue).
The bottom of that blue line appears to avoid residential - so I say continue the cut-and-cover all the way down Pape and around to the East Harbour Station (or possibly just east of it). Based on the Relief Line alignment (where I have drawing), the Carlaw Sanitary Sewer is 12m deep. Hopefully, the blue line can pass over it. Then you simply start the TBM from East Harbour and go westward. This adds about 1km to the TBM length, and 1 emergency exit. But it keeps all construction underground. If you are going to add the extra distance and extra curves to avoid residences @ Eastern/Pape, why not just keep everyone happy.

View attachment 231145

I think the orange line for the Ontario Line will likely go under Berkeley instead of Parliament. They are doing soil testing under Berkeley.

 

[drum118]

I will put this here that was sent to me since I have seen BBD building this line from day one. Not the first time this BBD product has been proposed for Toronto, with the last one being the SRT and Smart Track plan.

I have been told by a source close to a TransLink manager that Alstom will cease production of the Movia Automatic Light Metro, leaving Vancouver, as the only customer, without a supplier for the proprietary Linear Induction Motor powered railway.

This has caused some sleepless nights for execs because the cars may have to be built from scratch if another company bids on supplying the cars. This means the costs will increase for an already expensive vehicle.

As one UK engineer told me a few years back; "You just don't slap a pair of LIM's on a bogie!"

Evidently TransLink senior managers have been in discussion with Alstom over this issue and the replies have not been reassuring.

I do not think provincial or local politico's are aware of the problem and for the past few years they have been denying that MALM is indeed at proprietary railway. According to the mayor's of Surrey and Vancouver, almost everyone operates them!

Huh?

Already, indications are that the cost of the the $4.6 billion build (12.8 km or 8 miles) for the Expo and Millennium Lines is rising due to increase cost of cement and special steel.

Unfortunately for the public that anarchy of the many local, provincial and national blockades over an approved gas pipeline has overshadowed any news of this here.

"

 

[officedweller]

Came across this video showing out of service automated trains with very short spacing behind a revenue train, which shows what the moving block system can do.

 

[Steve X]

Came across this video showing out of service automated trains with very short spacing behind a revenue train, which shows what the moving block system can do.

Moving block plus linear induction motors. The following train would be able to stop in time if the first train suddenly halted. This would not be the case for heavier conventional subway trains.

 

[officedweller]

That makes sense