Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

TheTigerMaster said:
It’s been more than a year since we’ve seen any work done on this project. Just saying.
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What do you mean? In April 2019, just before Doug Ford and the Conservatives forced TTC to cancel the project, they released the Class 3 cost estimate, and the Business Case Analysis. Design work was proceeding, and they were preparing the RFP for construction and the December 2018 ROI closed. The April 2019 update details property acquisition. Construction was suppose to start in 2020.

There was a lot of information on the project website, before the TTC closed it - see the archived version from May at https://web.archive.org/web/20190506095246/http://scarboroughsubwayextension.ca/
 
nfitz said:
What do you mean? In April 2019, just before Doug Ford and the Conservatives forced TTC to cancel the project, they released the Class 3 cost estimate, and the Business Case Analysis. Design work was proceeding, and they were preparing the RFP for construction and the December 2018 ROI closed. The April 2019 update details property acquisition. Construction was suppose to start in 2020.

There was a lot of information on the project website, before the TTC closed it - see the archived version from May at https://web.archive.org/web/20190506095246/http://scarboroughsubwayextension.ca/
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Ah my bad. I was under the impression that the forced cancelation was at some point last year :/
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
That's exactly what's going to happen. This is a shell proposal, he has no intention to build it. He will then blame some one else (the city, Feds) for it not getting done.
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I'm sure Ford is hoping for a Liberal win in the next Federal election - then he'll continue to have someone else to blame.

This is all putting aside the fact that he claimed they'd be proceeding with these projects whether or not there's any Federal contribution.
 
If there's any benefit to this whole fiasco, it's that after the Province has totally botched the Scarborough Subway and Relief Line, I expect those projects to be swiftly re-downloaed to the City of Toronto, to restore transparency and accountability to transit expansion in the city.

Let's not be naive and think that this behaviour we're seeing from Queen's Park and Metrolinx begins and ends with the Ford government. We've already seen the Wynne government use Metrolinx to cancel the Sheppard East LRT without telling the public, the Crosstown LRT went a quarter-billion dollars over budget without that ever being disclosed to the public, and the Finch West LRT was delayed by five years under highly questionable circumstances (I do not buy Metrolinx's PR spin on the delays at all). We've been operating under this Metrolinx experiment for nearly a decade now; the results speak for themselves. And surprise, surprise, when the DRL and SSE were uploaded to Metrolinx, we just see more of the same nonsense.

The only "value" Metrolinx seems to have brought to the transit-building process is that it allows Queen's Park to hide all the bad news from the public. In the good old days of Queen's Park cutting a cheque to the TTC to build infrastructure, the Crosstown LRT would likely be just a year away from completion, and the Sheppard East LRT and Finch West LRT would've been completed 5+ years ago, precisely because the TTC has far more transparency and accountability than Metrolinx; you can't secretly cancel projects when there's transparency at every stage.

Now merely re-downloding this projects won't be good enough. The City should also receive the revenue tools necessary to effectively build transit, so we can end the era of Toronto begging Queen's Park for money to build transit. A city of 3 Million is fully capable of building it themselves.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
If there's any benefit to this whole fiasco, it's that after the Province has totally botched the Scarborough Subway and Relief Line, I expect those projects to be swiftly re-downloaed to the City of Toronto, to restore transparency and accountability to transit expansion in the city.

Let's not be naive and think that this behaviour we're seeing from Queen's Park and Metrolinx begins and ends with the Ford government. We've already seen the Wynne government use Metrolinx to cancel the Sheppard East LRT without telling the public, the Crosstown LRT went a quarter-billion dollars over budget without that ever being disclosed to the public, and the Finch West LRT was delayed by five years under highly questionable circumstances (I do not buy Metrolinx's PR spin on the delays at all). We've been operating under this Metrolinx experiment for nearly a decade now; the results speak for themselves. And surprise, surprise, when the DRL and SSE were uploaded to Metrolinx, we just see more of the same nonsense.

The only "value" Metrolinx seems to have brought to the transit-building process is that it allows Queen's Park to hide all the bad news from the public. In the good old days of Queen's Park cutting a cheque to the TTC to build infrastructure, the Crosstown LRT would likely be just a year away from completion, and the Sheppard East LRT and Finch West LRT would've been completed 5+ years ago, precisely because the TTC has far more transparency and accountability than Metrolinx; you can't secretly cancel projects when there's transparency at every stage.

Now merely re-downloding this projects won't be good enough. The City should also receive the revenue tools necessary to effectively build transit, so we can end the era of Toronto begging Queen's Park for money to build transit. A city of 3 Million is fully capable of building it themselves.
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But in the case of overbudget projects, this might actually be a good thing. It prevents ignorant people from latching onto a talking point, and ultimately disregard transit expansion as a whole. Take the TYSSE, the Sheppard Subway and iON: The TYSSE was a much-needed transit expansion to York University and an important piece for the future of regional transit integration, yet it was a victim of being somewhere around 50% over budget. That negative light gives NIMBYs the reason to disregard transit expansion (especially rapid transit expansion) as a while.

The Sheppard subway was built within budget but it was a victim of ridership shortcomings (compared to our expectations). That negative light, despite it not being justified, has allowed for people to call for privatization, closure, and a reduction of service along that corridor and others throughout the city. Having that information reduced public trust in public transit construction.

Finally, the most infamous, iON. This project got a lot more hate than any of the above, probably because it was a new technology for the City of Waterloo. Most interestingly, it's the only P3 here. Despite the system having respectable ridership now, there was always and there will always be a stigma against it. The fact that the project was 6% over budget was enough for a lot of people to call for cancellation and lose trust in the regional government (when the contractor was responsible).

While Waterloo is a different city from Toronto, the fact still remains that the public is generally more supportive of the Crosstown, RER, and the Finch West LRT because of the lack of information available to us. This isn't necessarily a good thing, but it's something to consider when talking about transit. We should also consider the fact that this deception can lead to abuse and broken promises (as seen with the Relief Line and Scarborough subway with the current government). Nevertheless, criticize the liberal government all you want, but at least they started building the crosstown (albeit with a poor technology choice), the finch west LRT, they got the UPX completed, and were making significant improvements to the GO network. Hopefully votors remember that and consider it when they vote in the next election.
 
Streety McCarface said:
But in the case of overbudget projects, this might actually be a good thing. It prevents ignorant people from latching onto a talking point, and ultimately disregard transit expansion as a whole.
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Sure, that's a benefit. But it's a rather small benefit compared to the benefits that all these canceled projects would provide. I'll gladly accept some bad PR in exchange for having the SELRT, FWLRT, SSE and DRL under construction.

The Sheppard East LRT is dead. The DRL looks dead. The SSE looks dead. The FWLRT is delayed by 5 years. The Crosstown is a year delayed and $250 Million over budget. At this point I really don't know what benefit Metrolinx has been to transit expansion in Toronto. They're worse than useless; they're actively detrimental to the goal of expanding transit across the city. This agency is becoming a graveyard of dead or botched transit projects. And at this point I don't want Metrolinx or Queen's Park to have anything to do with transit operations or expansion in Toronto. They can fool me once, but I'm sure as hell not being fooled again.

If PR is that big an issue, the TTC can pay some PR consult $150k/yr to put a positive spin on bad news or something
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
The Crosstown is a year delayed and $250 Million over budget. At this point I really don't know what benefit Metrolinx has been to transit expansion in Toronto.
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Which is why in the recent public consultation on the future of the TTC, I commented that the province should download Metrolinx to the City, to improve management, and provide better project delivery.

I'm waiting to see if City staff agree with my suggestion. :)
 
nfitz said:
Which is why in the recent public consultation on the future of the TTC, I commented that the province should download Metrolinx to the City, to improve management, and provide better project delivery.

I'm waiting to see if City staff agree with my suggestion. :)
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I hear that Dean French may want a government job.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Now merely re-downloding this projects won't be good enough. The City should also receive the revenue tools necessary to effectively build transit, so we can end the era of Toronto begging Queen's Park for money to build transit. A city of 3 Million is fully capable of building it themselves.
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Toronto should just become its own province.
 
Steve X said:
Toronto should just become its own province.
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It is a province; the name is Ontario. 70% consists of the GGH and satellite regions largely dependent on Toronto.

The economic zone of Toronto elects our provincial leaders but we as a region are highly split on what the priorities should be.
 
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