Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Has anyone considered this:

Phase 1 of the DRL is a subway from King station, up to Pape (5km).

Phase 2 is a subway from Pape to Don Mills/Eglinton to meet the Crosstown link (6km).

Phase 3 is an LRT from Don Mills/Eglinton to Don Mills/Sheppard which then curves east to fill out the rest of the Sheppard East LRT (6km to Sheppard and then east). This would let people in Scarborough take an LRT all the way to Don Mills/Eglinton, and then easily transfer to the Crosstown or DRL subway .

The idea is that the ridership from Sheppard to Eglinton does not really require a subway and an LRT could be built very cheap through Don Mills as it is 6 lanes all the way from Eglinton to Sheppard. Also, it avoids an "LRT Stub" as is favoured by posters here for the Scarborough extension and gives a total length of ~16km for this combined DRL/Sheppard LRT.

Are there projected volume breakdowns by section? Pape to Eglinton could even be a tunneled LRT if volumes don't require a subway.
 
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people have considered it but it isnt that don mills needs relief but that yonge does. The further north we go the less people from the east make it to yonge. As a result the numbers show the subway should make it up to sheppard and then there are weirdos like me who think it should make it to finch.
 
darth_freeman said:
Has anyone considered this:

Phase 1 of the DRL is a subway from King station, up to Pape.

Phase 2 is a subway from Pape to Don Mills/Eglinton to meet the Crosstown link.

Phase 3 is an LRT from Don Mills/Eglinton to Don Mills/Sheppard which then curves east to fill out the rest of the Sheppard East LRT. This would let people in Scarborough take an LRT all the way to Don Mills/Eglinton, and then easily transfer to the Crosstown or DRL subway.

The idea is that the ridership from Sheppard to Eglinton does not really require a subway and an LRT could be built very cheap through Don Mills as it is 6 lanes all the way from Eglinton to Sheppard.

Are there projected volume breakdowns by section?
Click to expand...

There was no breakdown in the YRNS. If we compare the results of the Yonge Relief Network Study and Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study, the Eglinton to Sheppard section should be moving 6,500 pphpd, which is out of the range of on-street ROWs. You could build light rail in a fully exclusive surface corridor, but then you'd need a separate Maintenance & Storage and vehicle fleet, which would probably make this more expensive than simply extending the relief line on a heavy rail fully exclusive surface corridor.

Given the auxiliary benefits of the Eglinton to Sheppard section (reducing Yonge crowding by 36%), and how sensitive the provided relief is to the speed of the Relief Line, I can stand behind building the subway up to Sheppard & Don Mills.
 
maybe if the STC and Eglinton was interlined it would have made some sense... I dont know but i cant get behind it either.
 
darth_freeman said:
Has anyone considered this:

Phase 1 of the DRL is a subway from King station, up to Pape (5km).

Phase 2 is a subway from Pape to Don Mills/Eglinton to meet the Crosstown link (6km).

Phase 3 is an LRT from Don Mills/Eglinton to Don Mills/Sheppard which then curves east to fill out the rest of the Sheppard East LRT (6km to Sheppard and then east). This would let people in Scarborough take an LRT all the way to Don Mills/Eglinton, and then easily transfer to the Crosstown or DRL subway .

The idea is that the ridership from Sheppard to Eglinton does not really require a subway and an LRT could be built very cheap through Don Mills as it is 6 lanes all the way from Eglinton to Sheppard. Also, it avoids an "LRT Stub" as is favoured by posters here for the Scarborough extension and gives a total length of ~16km for this combined DRL/Sheppard LRT.

Are there projected volume breakdowns by section? Pape to Eglinton could even be a tunneled LRT if volumes don't require a subway.
Click to expand...
Beat you by a good year and a half. :p

TransitMap_Eglinton-DonMills_Interline.png


This was before the YRNS study came out. Now it is evidently clear that Don Mills has subway level ridership in its own right and would immensely relieve the Yonge subway.
 

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sixrings said:
id prefer king so we have proper station transfers at st andrews and king. Really dont look forward to a long transfer like what we see at Spadina station if the subway is built on either adelaide or wellington.
Click to expand...

1) The transfers would look more like what exists currently at Bloor-Yonge, where the platforms basically form a T.

2) I don't really think there would be a high transfer volume between the DRL and YUS. Downtown is a destination, not a transfer point. And if someone is going to the 'upper loop' stations (College, Wellesley, Queen's Park, etc), they're probably going to take B-D to either Bloor-Yonge or St. George and transfer SB like they do now, instead of backtracking.

Therefore, designing an optimal transfer between the two lines isn't really a top requirement. If any connection between the two is important, it's at/around Union, but that's primarily because of the RER/VIA/GO Bus connections.
 
sixrings said:
id prefer king so we have proper station transfers at st andrews and king. Really dont look forward to a long transfer like what we see at Spadina station if the subway is built on either adelaide or wellington.
Click to expand...

If the RL was on Adelaide, it would intersect the University Line station without a walkway. For King Station, it would be a 60 metre walk. This is assuming the King Staton platform isn't shifted north.
 
gweed123 said:
1)
2) I don't really think there would be a high transfer volume between the DRL and YUS. Downtown is a destination, not a transfer point. And if someone is going to the 'upper loop' stations (College, Wellesley, Queen's Park, etc), they're probably going to take B-D to either Bloor-Yonge or St. George and transfer SB like they do now, instead of backtracking.
Click to expand...

One of the design goals should be to minimise the need to transfer, and maximise the ability to walk to downtown destinations. The solution may lie in placement of platform exits and improvements and extensions to PATH, rather than the configuration of the transit line itself. When I worked at College/University, there were a great many people who walked to Union rather than take the subway. The limiting factor was weather, which is where PATH is critical.

- Paul
 
sixrings said:
maybe if the SRT and Eglinton was interlined it would have made some sense... I dont know but i cant get behind it either.
Click to expand...

If the ECLRT is extended as Crosstown East, this may not matter. With Crosstown East, we could see very high eastbound peak hour ridership on Eglinton towards Yonge. This would make bringing the Relief Line to at least Eglinton a must.
 
WislaHD said:
Beat you by a good year and a half. :p

This was before the YRNS study came out. Now it is evidently clear that Don Mills has subway level ridership in its own right and would immensely relieve the Yonge subway.
Click to expand...

Nice map! It surprises me that even the section of Sheppard to Eglinton would require a full blown subway though. I would expect many from the east to instead transfer to the Bloor Danforth line at STC.
 
darth_freeman said:
Nice map! It surprises me that even the section of Sheppard to Eglinton would require a full blown subway though. I would expect many from the east to instead transfer to the Bloor Danforth line at STC.
Click to expand...
Interestingly, because of Bloor-Danforth's alignment going around the ravines, it will actually take longer to reach the Relief Line from Line 2 than it will on the Eglinton Crosstown or (depending on location) some of the bus routes along Lawrence/York Mills/Sheppard.

The Relief Line if built to Sheppard, will have a huge catchment area in Scarborough.
 
Speaking of reducing the need for transfers, IMO a Queen alignment would be ideal for people to walk to both the financial district and points north like Queens Park.

darth_freeman said:
Nice map! It surprises me that even the section of Sheppard to Eglinton would require a full blown subway though. I would expect many from the east to instead transfer to the Bloor Danforth line at STC.
Click to expand...
There's a huge chunk of the city between STC and Yonge where people would gravitate to the RL instead of going all the way to Yonge or backtracking to McCowan. This is why the projected ridership for the RL Long is so high. Building any part of it as LRT and forcing yet another transfer would reduce the line's attractiveness to riders and effectiveness for relief to other lines.

The outer portions of just about every subway line are lower than the number that's strictly needed to justify a subway, and there's nothing wrong with that. Transit lines are typically built to minimize vehicle types and transfers on a single corridor, not have the line go from subway to LRT to bus.
 
Build a tunnel under Richmond containing two westbound lanes and a shoulder on one level, and a westbound subway /LRT on another level. Have an eastbound tunnel under Adelaide. Have your stations on north-south streets between Richmond and Adelaide. All of this can be built with simple cut and cover. On and off ramps can simply climb to or decent from the street (Adelaide or Ricmond) which contains traffic flowing in the same direction as the tunnel. There is already a connection to the DVP along these routes. Done, Gardiner buried.
 
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