Toronto Monde | 149.95m | 44s | Great Gulf | Moshe Safdie

Torontovibe said:
Because Toronto is not about originality, it's about conformity! One developer puts up a grey spandrel tower and all the others follow.
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Monde has no grey spandrel
 
Torontovibe said:
Because Toronto is not about originality, it's about conformity! One developer puts up a grey spandrel tower and all the others follow.
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I heard the reason the developers all use grey spandrel is because condensation on the panels "blends in" better on grey than any other colour. It is basically a way to disguise the (inevitable) failure of the crappy building envelope.

Only a fool would buy a condo unit in one of those window-wall monstrosities. Caveat emptor!
 
UrbanFervour said:
I heard the reason the developers all use grey spandrel is because condensation on the panels "blends in" better on grey than any other colour.
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Not sure where you heard that but it's absolute bullshit. Take it from someone who assists in designing these "monstrosities".
 
Torontovibe said:
Because Toronto is not about originality, it's about conformity! One developer puts up a grey spandrel tower and all the others follow.
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Conformity by way of the fact that a wall with punched windows is a more costly and far more complicated design and construction undertaking than window wall. And there's nothing a developer hates more than paying us for the necessary amount of time it takes to design something throughly and paying multiple contractors to install the bldg envelope. (A solid wall with punched windows = multiple contractors. Window wall or curtain wall means you get one contractor to install the entire envelope.)
 
modernizt said:
Conformity by way of the fact that a wall with punched windows is a more costly and far more complicated design and construction undertaking than window wall. And there's nothing a developer hates more than paying us for the necessary amount of time it takes to design something throughly and paying multiple contractors to install the bldg envelope. (A solid wall with punched windows = multiple contractors. Window wall or curtain wall means you get one contractor to install the entire envelope.)
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In my older condo there was a building envelope project, the windows were changed in the entire building. The cost was exorbitant and it was for walls with punched windows. I am wondering how this process will look like with all the glass towers in Toronto? May be 30 years from now? Is it even feasible to replace a window wall? And from the cost perspective, would such repair even make sense?
 
Rupert Pumpkin said:
Most people don't know the difference about "all that other stuff" as well.
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Even as an architecture enthusiast myself, "all that other stuff" didn't factor into my decision at all when I was buying my condo to live in. Location, price, unit layout, previous AGM minutes, inspectors report, and talking to people who live in the building, were the main things I looked at.
 
alenka said:
In my older condo there was a building envelope project, the windows were changed in the entire building. The cost was exorbitant and it was for walls with punched windows. I am wondering how this process will look like with all the glass towers in Toronto? May be 30 years from now? Is it even feasible to replace a window wall? And from the cost perspective, would such repair even make sense?
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Exactly my point above. As a short term investment maybe... but if you are planning on making one of these condos your medium to long term home you should prepare for the window wall systems to fail. And if you are one of the owners left holding the bag when they do, you'll likely be on the hook for a very heft bill to replace them.
 
alenka said:
In my older condo there was a building envelope project, the windows were changed in the entire building. The cost was exorbitant and it was for walls with punched windows. I am wondering how this process will look like with all the glass towers in Toronto? May be 30 years from now? Is it even feasible to replace a window wall? And from the cost perspective, would such repair even make sense?
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In 30 years who knows what these shiny condos will become. If the economy doesn't tank there will be plenty of work for window wall renovators, probably happening all at the same time.
 
old boy said:
In 30 years who knows what these shiny condos will become. If the economy doesn't tank there will be plenty of work for window wall renovators, probably happening all at the same time.
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Nothing lasts forever. I suppose it's one way of building quickly...and cheaply.

Perhaps in 20-30yrs, such work can be done for 1/5th the price. New materials, new automated machines to speed up the process, etc...
 
UrbanFervour said:
Oh so we have you to blame?
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Sure, if you want to blame the architects and designers who are the ones fighting for good design and trying to push their clients to do the best case scenario. (The developer is also the reason we have a job and repeat business, so the architect has to be very careful and our hands are tied.) The developer makes the final decision on what the designer comes up with - not the designer.

Blame regulations that don't work (i.e. the 60/40 glazing ratio, which doesn't get to the crux of the problem), and a planning system that lacks resources to plan comprehensively and instead implements blanket/cover-all regulations such as 25m separations and particular floorplate sizes that make every new development the same type of point tower on a podium. Big building code changes are coming and a lot of architects - while it will mean a big adjustment in workflow - are very thankful for this. Those of us who design want better codes that will force our clients to do something different than the current norm.

Not all architects are great, but I can assure you that there are many many architects and designers who want to push the envelope and do things differently, create beautiful spaces, create great housing, etc. etc.... but at the end of the day, if a regulation doesn't call for something to be done the right way, a developer won't do it. And why would they?

alenka said:
I am wondering how this process will look like with all the glass towers in Toronto? May be 30 years from now? Is it even feasible to replace a window wall?
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The good news is that removing window wall or curtainwall is straightforward as far as demolition goes. So while it is entirely feasible, yes, it is very expensive to replace with a better system. My concern for the future of these condo towers would be that many condo corporations will lack the funds to replace the system with something better, or, if they do, that it will lack architectural quality or ambition. They likely will just hire a contractor or building science consultant and won't spend money on an architectural consultant for the project. I'm worried that we'll end up with some pretty brutal re-cladding projects, many of which could be really ugly or look out of sync with the tower's design, even if the building performance is improved.
 
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UrbanFervour said:
Exactly my point above. As a short term investment maybe... but if you are planning on making one of these condos your medium to long term home you should prepare for the window wall systems to fail. And if you are one of the owners left holding the bag when they do, you'll likely be on the hook for a very heft bill to replace them.
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Glazing systems will fail at some point regardless of how pricey the building is, and it will happen in buildings in which the majority of residents are not investors in exactly the same way as it will in the investor-heavy ones.

This is a reality that is neither unique to Toronto nor to window wall systems.
 
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