Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

ceaz40 said:
I loved the two we were getting....this looks heavy and awkward ☹️
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Those first 2-3 buildings proposed back in Sept/2012 were only a fantasy,
.. now we at least have a vision, hopefully in the next couple years Great Gulf can tweak and make this 1.5 billion dollar project a legit proposal to .advance with it
 
Quint said:
What a huge disappointment! More than any other proposed project in Toronto I was so looking forward to these towers getting built. They looked like a twin tower version of Gehry's New York Tower. If they can build a tower like that in New York why can't we build one here? If this is actually what they plan to build I really don't care if this gets built or not. I wonder if Gehry still has his name on the project? I don't think he would want to be associated with this latest iteration.
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Words can't explain how dissapointed I am too. If they can create a similar concrete window facade look in New York City why not here. Another glass box building for this city that doesn't deserve this height !
 
Apart from city planning requirements, there is only one predominant factor which determines what gets built and that's market demand. Toronto's entertainment district does not command New York square footage prices. These will be two of the most architecturally stunning buildings in the city as proposed. We will be very lucky to have them.
 
ProjectEnd said:
400m pencil towers?? Where? Containing what?

You'd shadow NPS on the former. 33 Yonge has preliminary plans but that's all I can say.
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Are shadows really an issue now a days when we all live indoors? I feel like we are going to be used to the dark places by the time any of said proposals are built. Times have changed thanks to COVID. Or no thanks to. Just saw that I was replying to the wrong page... but I still ask the same question.
 
Omg didn’t see the design change. What happened? I like that they are least similar in shape.. but the skin of them now looks... in sure of words?. Busy?
 
Quint said:
If they can build a tower like that in New York why can't we build one here?
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Buildings in New York can command a much, much higher premium than those in Toronto. Maybe if we turn into a city where people jet set to from around the globe we’ll see more ambitious private developments. Until then...
 
Quint said:
I wonder if Gehry still has his name on the project? I don't think he would want to be associated with this latest iteration.
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The latest models (sitting on a wooden base) are obviously similar to the first few UT database images of the previous design... even the "halo" background of the photos look pretty much identical. I'd wager these were also generated by Gehry's studio.
 
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allengeorge said:
Buildings in New York can command a much, much higher premium than those in Toronto. Maybe if we turn into a city where people jet set to from around the globe we’ll see more ambitious private developments. Until then...
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Exactly, we cannot compare NYC and Toronto RE prices. It is vastly more international in every socio economic measure.
NYC is the capital of publishing, fashion, theater, finance, business etc. of the world, not just America
 
What a disappointment. I thought this would actually happen due to it being Gehry, the existence of 8 Spruce (Beekman) in NYC, and Toronto's current standing in the world. It's obviously possible to build what the original renderings suggested so is this the limitations of the developer they're working with or the that it's too expensive for this market? If it's the former, can't they simply work with whomever built 8 Spruce?
 
karledice said:
Exactly, we cannot compare NYC and Toronto RE prices. It is vastly more international in every socio economic measure.
NYC is the capital of publishing, fashion, theater, finance, business etc. of the world, not just America, or the United States.
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Aren't we really talking about Toronto building 1-2 buildings at this price point vs the 20-25 buildings like this that Manhattan has/is building? Toronto surely has enough HNWI (High Net Worth Individuals) that it can build a 1-2 buildings like this. If you look at the HNWI data in cities around the world it suggests that Toronto certainly does have enough of them.
 
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It has lost the design elements that identify it as a Gehry project- particularly the signature organic ripples/folds replaced with patterned window-wall. I understand that the market isn't there for such an ambitious project, but still quite surprised at how conventional the glazing now seems to be. For me the base is the most disappointing- why not at least include Gehry's design signatures here?
 
isaidso said:
Aren't we really talking about Toronto building 1-2 buildings at this price point vs the 20-25 buildings like this that Manhattan has/is building? Toronto surely has enough HNWI (High Net Worth Individuals) that it can build a 1-2 buildings like this. If you look at the HNWI data in cities around the world it suggests that Toronto certainly does have enough of them.
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I expect most willing to spend $2000+/sqft would prefer a cheaper building with a view (penthouse unit) rather than a fancy building but looking at their neighbours 30m away in Festival Tower. Selling 600sqft 1-bed units for $1.5M below the 45th floor would be a pretty big challenge.
 
"Add a few crinkles here and then this design works" etc. etc.... Really? I'm not even a Gehry fan and I think the last design was brilliant compared to this. Call it what you want but it's "architecture" by a million cuts. The ridiculous, anemic defence of developer cost-cutting and a complete lack of ambition throughout this thread is illustrative of what I think is bringing the quality of discourse on UT down in general. It shows a lack of understanding of what separates an undulating facade from a curtainwall product trying to be something it is not, or crappy typical details replacing what where custom Gehry details. This proposal is nothing of what it used to be, regardless of the excuses people make for it. And the design team themselves would probably tell you the same thing if you chatted with them about it over a stiff drink.
 
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