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Tewder

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... in part because people like ksun feel that only Montreal/Boston have any actual history cred'.
 

maestro

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Don't feet preservation in Montreal is much different than here. Some significant demolitions have occurred now that the downtown area is feeling greater development pressures.
 

ProjectEnd

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straw man argument. When did I ever say Asian style city building is great.
but the desperate strive to protect anything that is over 50 years old and include it in the new development is pretty funny and sad. In 500 years, this tower may be 600 years ago, and will still NOT be heritage and people will not stand on Yonge st and admire it. That's for sure.

Most Asian cities are too dense to effectively preserve most of the old buildings, many of which are of wood, not stone. However, there are plenty of Asian cities, the smaller ones where thousands of years old architecture and gardens are meticulously preserved, but I guess you have never been to Asia, have you? Most Canadians' experience with "Asia" is Singapore and Hong Kong probably. You think the entire Asia is like Singapore, Shanghai and Tokyo. Have you been to Kyoto and Suzhou for example before dissing the entire Asian style boomburg? Your typical disrespect for Asia only shows your utter ignorance. Even Shanghai, a relative new city has far more valuable and well protected heritage building than Toronto. But I guess you are too arrogant to know.

Examples, please?
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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To be fair, a significant amount of The Bund is preserved. But to argue that's the only valid type of preservation is like saying only Commerce Court North, Old City Hall or Royal York is worth preserving. That's a very Asian approach, and we don't need to operate on such a manner here.

AoD
 
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67Cup

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This is already a wide ranging thread so perhaps the Mods will permit a very off topic memory of the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, which Adma mentioned a few posts back. I was attending a conference in a downtown Memphis hotel which was only a few blocks from the Civil Rights Museum, according to the city map. I had a free stretch of a couple of hours, have no interest in Memphis' other tourist attraction, Elvis' home, and so decided to walk over to the museum. I did so and knew I was in the right place, both from my map and from the street banners hanging from the lampposts. Moreover, I walked directly past the museum store which was located in an old storefront next to a grassy open space where, according to the map, the museum was to be found. I turned the corner past the museum store and found myself looking down a grassy slope. But I couldn't see the museum or anything that looked remotely like a museum. At the foot of the slope was a very ordinary, slightly run down looking motel from about the 50's, I would think. No museum in sight, anywhere! I had actually turned around to make my way back up the slope to ask in the store where the museum itself could be found when it finally came to me just what that motel actually was.

In fact, the architects had done a brilliant job of building the museum into and behind the Lorraine Motel and it was well worth a visit. Go see it if you are ever in Memphis, even if you are an Elvis fan.

It does certainly show that historical interest sufficient to warrant preservation is not limited to aesthetic appeal or to architectural distinction. In this case, however, the tower will provide an interesting distinction to the building and the street, especially if it does receive some TLC, even apart from the historical connotations. And an historical plaque would be a good idea, I think.
 

salsa

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The desperate strive to protect anything that is over 50 years old and include it in the new development is pretty funny and sad.

What i find funny is that users like ksun and thekingeast usually mock Toronto's heritage preservation however they rave about the heritage preservation in cities like Boston and Montreal.


As if Toronto is good at preserving heritage. What an exaggeration.

Mike Layton @m_layton
The budget committee just voted 4-2 to cut 8 heritage & area planners from the 2015 budget. TO Heritage planning will be delayed years.
 

ksun

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To be fair, a significant amount of The Bund is preserved. But to argue that's the only valid type of preservation is like saying only Commerce Court North, Old City Hall or Royal York is worth preserving. That's a very Asian approach, and we don't need to operate on such a manner here.

AoD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_French_Concession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Garden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing'an_Temple

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongli - not in Shanghai but check it out, very fascinating town, getting too touristy in recent years.

For some reason, whenever the word "Asia" is brought up, it usually leads to knee jerk reaction as if the entire Asia is made of 60 story glass towers and 6 story commie blocks. How many Asian cities has Adma visited before coming up with his constant dismissive comment about Asia? Shanghai is not the best example. If time allows, visit the city of Suzhou and Hangzhou - hundreds, if not thousands of meticulously preserved ancient buildings, bridges and beautiful gardens.
People should really travel more and get a better sense of the rest of the world, instead of holding this ridiculously misinformed stereotype for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately when Canadians travel to "Asia", they usually go to Hong Kong or Singapore to see Asia - what a pity.

With regard to this clock tower, it is neither pretty nor historically significant, and it doesn't fit the new design. To put it there just feels corny. Yeah, it used to belong to an old fire hall from the 1870s, but what's so special about fire halls? They are everywhere. That's not "history". Which city doesn't have fire halls at that time? And yes, there was a gay bar there, but what does it have anything to do with the clock tower? Nothing. The gay bar just happened to be underneath it. And that's "history" we can tell our children? Let's not cheapen history. Sorry, that tower doesn't reflect gay right history in Toronto. That is a huge stretch. There is hardly a story associated with the clock tower.

Shanghai may not be a champion of history preservation, but it does better than Toronto so let's not be all smugly as if we are superior. The massive city is becoming more and more unbearable in the past two decades, but they are building new parks and have quite a few pedestrian only streets. Point out one car-less street in Toronto? None. There is a lot to learn from other countries, including China. There is absolutely nothing wrong to criticise, but at least visit those place in person and have some real life understanding before jumping to stereotype conclusions.
 
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condovo

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ksun, you're out of your depth. You don't know what you're talking about. In fact the more you talk, the more it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. You should just stop.
 

adma

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And yes, there was a gay bar there, but what does it have anything to do with the clock tower? Nothing. The gay bar just happened to be underneath it. And that's "history" we can tell our children? Let's not cheapen history. Sorry, that tower doesn't reflect gay right history in Toronto. That is a huge stretch. There is hardly a story associated with the clock tower.

SSCVposter-ThisIsADiscriminationFreeZone.png
 

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