Hurontario-Main LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

sixrings

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I think it’s a good thing that Hurontario LRT is not extending to Lakeshore.

From a transportation network perspective, it makes more sense for buses (or any future higher order transit) on Lakeshore to detour the couple hundred metres to the GO station, and for the GO station to be the transportation hub for the area, in order to facilitate transfers between the GO line and various local transit routes.

Extending the LRT to Lakeshore would produce two possible outcomes, neither of which are ideal. First outcome is that transit along Lakeshore is still routed to Port Credit GO to facilitate that transfer, and the extra bit of the LRT becomes a useless stub kind of like McCowan on the SRT. The other outcome is if transit on Lakeshore does not detour to Port Credit GO. This results in a pretty bad situation where anyone trying to travel from somewhere along Lakeshore to Downtown (or otherwise transferring between GO and Lakeshore) has to transfer onto the LRT and ride for 200m before transferring again. Even then, the LRT station serves little purpose, since it would probably be faster to walk most of the time due to the LRT’s headway.
200m. Could we not build an extra long platform so even in this scenario lakeshore residents can walk underground to the connection. Or should hurontario residents be expected to walk but lakeshore residents not?
 

bangkok

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200m. Could we not build an extra long platform so even in this scenario lakeshore residents can walk underground to the connection. Or should hurontario residents be expected to walk but lakeshore residents not?
Are you aware that many of the Port Credit stops will require a walk of 300 metres or more?

For example, Let's say you work or have an appointment at one of the businesses mid block in the stretch between Minneola road and South Service road - the two stops.

Looking south in the photo below it is 300metres. Minneola is at the top of the frame.

HurontarioSouth.jpg


Northbound is even worse. 580m to reach South Service road
HurontarioNorth.jpg


SixRings, Are you really going to die on that 200m hill?
 

sixrings

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Are you aware that many of the Port Credit stops will require a walk of 300 metres or more?

For example, Let's say you work or have an appointment at one of the businesses mid block in the stretch between Minneola road and South Service road - the two stops.

Looking south in the photo below it is 300metres. Minneola is at the top of the frame.

View attachment 373500

Northbound is even worse. 580m to reach South Service road
View attachment 373501

SixRings, Are you really going to die on that 200m hill?
I am. I’m sorry but that isn’t comparable. There is a huge amount of lakeshore potential and far more to walk to. It’s no different than the close stop spacing south of bloor on the subway yet wide stop spacing north of bloor. This is Mississaugas Yonge street version of a transit project. Nothing will ever be more important to the city. And here we are catering to NIMBYs or being apathetic towards a 200 m walk which may or may not be much depending on your health and or age.

I’m happy Mississauga is doing something transit wise. But my god why not do it right when we’re this close. I still haven’t heard an answer other nimbys which is pathetic and apathy that to some it’s not really a big deal. Either way it’s not perfect when it’s so close to being.
 

drum118

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First of all for those who complain about distance between stops, do you know how many riders use those stops and where the high/low numbers are??

Draw a line on either side of the road 300-500 meters to see how the roads connect to Hurontario and what the real walking distance is to the 300-500 meter stops. You will find the walking distance can be 2-3 times more than walking in a straight line on Hurontario or any transit route. Bulk of riders are from the side streets, not on Hurontario who have to deal with long walks.

It takes me 15 minutes to get to my current Hurontario stop and it will be 18 minutes when the LRT starts running. On a good day, its not bad to walk to the stop, but at this time of year it becomes the pits when it snows and the wind is whipping around you trying to walk on snow cover sidewalks and a bus stop. Snow clearing of sidewalks and stops are a joke for healthy people, but a nightmare for those with walkers, canes, stroller, wheelchair/scooter and slow walkers. See stroller, wheelchair/scooter walking on the road or in the cycling lanes since they are clear as well able body people. Even on good days, it will take these riders an extra 5-10+ minutes to get to my stop.

Again, everything is based around able body people with no thought about the ones who are having a harder time to get to/from a transit stop. Most stops have no shelters and if so, fail to comply with accessibility standards.

As a fact, ridership drops off south of Dundas and becomes the pits south of the North Service Rd. Ridership is only high during school hours for Minneola. One reason the 103 was scrap south of the Queensway and headway increase for the 2.

Riders get on/off at King St, Elm Dr, Central Parkway, Minneola to catch a bus that will take them to/from where they have to go in the first place.

Bottom line, this issue applies to all transit system and more so for whose who get a lot more snow or rain than we do.

This stop spacing applies to GO Transit as well, as they are built for cars, not transit nor walk-ins. Even some subway stations have the same issues.

The LRT is only making things worse for a lot of riders and why bus service will remain on Hurontario once the LRT is running with longer headways.
 

W. K. Lis

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First of all for those who complain about distance between stops, do you know how many riders use those stops and where the high/low numbers are??

Draw a line on either side of the road 300-500 meters to see how the roads connect to Hurontario and what the real walking distance is to the 300-500 meter stops. You will find the walking distance can be 2-3 times more than walking in a straight line on Hurontario or any transit route. Bulk of riders are from the side streets, not on Hurontario who have to deal with long walks.

It takes me 15 minutes to get to my current Hurontario stop and it will be 18 minutes when the LRT starts running. On a good day, its not bad to walk to the stop, but at this time of year it becomes the pits when it snows and the wind is whipping around you trying to walk on snow cover sidewalks and a bus stop. Snow clearing of sidewalks and stops are a joke for healthy people, but a nightmare for those with walkers, canes, stroller, wheelchair/scooter and slow walkers. See stroller, wheelchair/scooter walking on the road or in the cycling lanes since they are clear as well able body people. Even on good days, it will take these riders an extra 5-10+ minutes to get to my stop.

Again, everything is based around able body people with no thought about the ones who are having a harder time to get to/from a transit stop. Most stops have no shelters and if so, fail to comply with accessibility standards.

As a fact, ridership drops off south of Dundas and becomes the pits south of the North Service Rd. Ridership is only high during school hours for Minneola. One reason the 103 was scrap south of the Queensway and headway increase for the 2.

Riders get on/off at King St, Elm Dr, Central Parkway, Minneola to catch a bus that will take them to/from where they have to go in the first place.

Bottom line, this issue applies to all transit system and more so for whose who get a lot more snow or rain than we do.

This stop spacing applies to GO Transit as well, as they are built for cars, not transit nor walk-ins. Even some subway stations have the same issues.

The LRT is only making things worse for a lot of riders and why bus service will remain on Hurontario once the LRT is running with longer headways.

The problem with Mississauga is the cul-de-sac, which discourages walking.

Want to Fix Urban Sprawl? Ditch the Cul-de-Sac

Streets arranged in grids, with few dead-ends, encourage walking and transit. But in developing countries, growing cities are taking the opposite route.

See link.

The world’s cities are growing fast. Half the human race already lives in urban areas, and another 2.5 billion people could join them by 2050, the United Nations forecasts. While urban growth is inevitable, urban sprawl—with its long commutes and increased congestion—doesn’t have to be.

In the developed world, cities are slowly beginning to try to reconsider sprawl and embrace more walkable, transit friendly development. But, according to a new study, the opposite is true in many parts of the global south, where cities not only are experiencing the most headlong growth but are also taking a development path that could lock them into dependence on cars—and all their associated problems—for decades.

The problem, the study suggests, are “disconnected” street networks—think neighborhoods filled with cul-de-sacs, dead-ends and large block sizes. Highly disconnected street patterns increase travel distances and car dependency. Street designs with low levels of connectivity have been shown to increase traffic on major roads, increasing congestion and carbon emissions.

The alternative: connected street networks, like Manhattan’s regular grid of streets and avenues, that encourage walking, increase access to mass transit, and reduce traffic and car-related pollution.

“Transit doesn't work well without connected streets, and if you build lots of cul-de-sacs and gated communities, you're essentially transit-proofing the city for generations to come,” says Adam Millard-Ball, an associate professor of Environmental Studies at UC Santa Cruz and an author of the study.

Millard-Ball and Christopher Barrington-Leigh, an associate professor at McGill University’s Institute for Health and Social Policy and the McGill School of Environment, used satellite data to trace the evolution of street grids since 1975. They found a marked increase around the world in developments with disconnected streets. The most disconnected type of network design, typically found in gated communities, has nearly doubled worldwide since 2000, with the sharpest increases seen in Southeast Asia and Latin America.

Connected street networks help reduce traffic on major thoroughfares, are cheaper to build and maintain and by reducing travel distances, make walking and biking more desirable options. Perpendicular street grids like Manhattan’s or Barcelona’s, for instance, combine street connectedness with high density really well. Irregular but highly connected street patterns like Paris’s or Tokyo’s also do the job—you’re never very far away from a public transit stop.

What’s more, the way streets are laid out now determines the pattern of later growth. “Street connectivity fundamentally constrains both people's travel choices and also how cities can adapt and evolve in the future,” says Millard-Ball.

Throughout much of the 20th century, urban growth in North America and Europe emphasized car-led development. Cul-de-sacs were perceived as family-friendly and safer for children, but contributed to car-dependency and other problems associated with sprawl.

Today, at least in higher-income countries, more cities are moving away from disconnected street networks and are adopting policies that encourage walkability and transit-oriented development. A ‘hipsturbia’ trend sees developers catering to the millennials by building neighborhoods with easy walking access to cafes, restaurants and local shops.
 

drum118

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The problem with Mississauga is the cul-de-sac, which discourages walking.

Want to Fix Urban Sprawl? Ditch the Cul-de-Sac

Streets arranged in grids, with few dead-ends, encourage walking and transit. But in developing countries, growing cities are taking the opposite route.

See link.
That is not only a problem for walking, but also for transit and traffic. Even ring roads are a problem. This applies to a number of town and cities. I live on a ring road and its makes it a rough ride for transit.

Lack of grid systems is a major issues for everyone. Between lack of grid system, Cul-de-Sac and ring roads, lot of wasted areas with longer travel time for everyone, let alone trying to put in transit..

The section between QEW and The Lakeshore was built as vacation homes for the folks of Toronto in the 1800's that had large lots and can be seen on Hurontario. Lots of farm land around then as well no urban planning. When urban planning was form, it was mainly for cars going to/from Toronto even after Mississauga became a city.

The only way to fix Mississauga is bulldoze it 60% and start fresh with development facing the street, not backing onto it.

As much I support retaining the look of Hurontario south of the QEW up to 15 years ago, not worth saving since business have taken over the homes there and destroy the look of the area. Will support midrise development with shorter blocks to increase transit ridership.

Mississauga has very long blocks that make it harder to get to other streets.
 

Allandale25

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sixrings

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So everyone said it’s in their plans but the PCs? I do agree with Drum though that this is going to be a big round about transit trip for say someone at eglinton which just wants to get to cooksville go station. What if you want to go from eglinton to lakeshore. You get to go the scenic milk route all around square one and you’re still left 200m away from your destination.

Btw why is there no Mississauga VIA station.
 

innsertnamehere

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NDP Horwarth promises everything under the sun if her party forms government. It's not a new thing. She treats the provinces coffers like an endless piggy bank and is a big reason why the NDP needs a new leader IMO. Literally every position I see her take is taking the more expensive option and never saying 'no'.

Not to say the loop isn't a valid thing, just that I think there needs to be a bit of perspective on the NDP's promises and how realistic they are.
 

ARG1

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First of all for those who complain about distance between stops, do you know how many riders use those stops and where the high/low numbers are??

Draw a line on either side of the road 300-500 meters to see how the roads connect to Hurontario and what the real walking distance is to the 300-500 meter stops. You will find the walking distance can be 2-3 times more than walking in a straight line on Hurontario or any transit route. Bulk of riders are from the side streets, not on Hurontario who have to deal with long walks.

It takes me 15 minutes to get to my current Hurontario stop and it will be 18 minutes when the LRT starts running. On a good day, its not bad to walk to the stop, but at this time of year it becomes the pits when it snows and the wind is whipping around you trying to walk on snow cover sidewalks and a bus stop. Snow clearing of sidewalks and stops are a joke for healthy people, but a nightmare for those with walkers, canes, stroller, wheelchair/scooter and slow walkers. See stroller, wheelchair/scooter walking on the road or in the cycling lanes since they are clear as well able body people. Even on good days, it will take these riders an extra 5-10+ minutes to get to my stop.

Again, everything is based around able body people with no thought about the ones who are having a harder time to get to/from a transit stop. Most stops have no shelters and if so, fail to comply with accessibility standards.

As a fact, ridership drops off south of Dundas and becomes the pits south of the North Service Rd. Ridership is only high during school hours for Minneola. One reason the 103 was scrap south of the Queensway and headway increase for the 2.

Riders get on/off at King St, Elm Dr, Central Parkway, Minneola to catch a bus that will take them to/from where they have to go in the first place.

Bottom line, this issue applies to all transit system and more so for whose who get a lot more snow or rain than we do.

This stop spacing applies to GO Transit as well, as they are built for cars, not transit nor walk-ins. Even some subway stations have the same issues.

The LRT is only making things worse for a lot of riders and why bus service will remain on Hurontario once the LRT is running with longer headways.
I have to ride on Viva Blue, and I have to walk 400m along Yonge Street to get to my local stop on top of the time it takes to walk to Yonge Street. That being said I'm still a massive proponent for longer stop spacing because the time saved by not having to stop very frequently usually makes up for the extra 3 mins I have to walk to reach the stop. This is RAPID TRANSIT, people who live further away from a point of interest (in this case Finch Station) would have to deal with even longer bus trips that are accumulated over several stops - and as such you often have to realize that some sacrifices have to made to your personal convenience in order to make a system that is universally faster for everyone. Making sidewalks walkable for those with accessibility issues is a road maintenance issue, not one that should relate to rapid transit. And as for stops without shelters, that sounds like a station design problem rather than a station spacing problem. If you want a service that addresses more local concerns, that's what busses are for. BRT and especially LRT are supposed to be a replacement for express bus services, sacrificing stop spacing and coverage in favour of higher speeds. Then its our job as city planners to capitalize on these stops and center development around them in order to minimize the impact of gaps left in the rapid transit line.
 

drum118

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Does anyone know if advance notice will be available for when the push box will be moved into position? I'd love to get some aerial shots of that happening.
Not at this time, but it been stated it was to be this month. Depending on what happen this weekend and the next closure will give a more clear timeframe as when the push will start. It will not happen overnight as it will be slow push, with it being done at night.
 

asher__jo

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That is not only a problem for walking, but also for transit and traffic. Even ring roads are a problem. This applies to a number of town and cities. I live on a ring road and its makes it a rough ride for transit.

Lack of grid systems is a major issues for everyone. Between lack of grid system, Cul-de-Sac and ring roads, lot of wasted areas with longer travel time for everyone, let alone trying to put in transit..

The section between QEW and The Lakeshore was built as vacation homes for the folks of Toronto in the 1800's that had large lots and can be seen on Hurontario. Lots of farm land around then as well no urban planning. When urban planning was form, it was mainly for cars going to/from Toronto even after Mississauga became a city.

The only way to fix Mississauga is bulldoze it 60% and start fresh with development facing the street, not backing onto it.

As much I support retaining the look of Hurontario south of the QEW up to 15 years ago, not worth saving since business have taken over the homes there and destroy the look of the area. Will support midrise development with shorter blocks to increase transit ridership.

Mississauga has very long blocks that make it harder to get to other streets.
What could be done is an expropriation tied to upzoning at adjacent properties to create a grid network.
 

bangkok

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Not at this time, but it been stated it was to be this month. Depending on what happen this weekend and the next closure will give a more clear timeframe as when the push will start. It will not happen overnight as it will be slow push, with it being done at night.
Thanks Drum.
 

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