Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

limer

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Did I say that you were? The billionaire comment is an excuse as if we don't have some great structures here. $ does not always mean better.
When it comes to residential high rises, yeah it does. It's not called Billionaire's Row for nothing. Although midtown NYC does have great supertall designs, I'd rather have this elegant stacked box that is 'affordable', than a spectacular-looking safety deposit box for foreign billionaires.
 

Rascacielo

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Did I say that you were? The billionaire comment is an excuse as if we don't have some great structures here. $ does not always mean better.
I share your frustration with the bait and switch approach and cheapening by developers that's happening too often in Toronto. However, we're talking specifically about this project, not about projects like Nobu. Blame Gehry and Mirvish for presenting a 'fantasy' project when they unveiled it a decade ago. I don't think any private developer in the world could afford to build it on that scale and exactly as rendered. If you hadn't seen those initial renderings, how would you rate the latest plan compared to other towers in Toronto (including office towers)? I think they look outstanding. And even when you compare it to Gehry's other RESIDENTIAL projects, it certainly doesn't look like the Dollarama version.
 
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TheKingEast

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I share your frustration with the bait and switch approach and cheapening by developers that's happening too often in Toronto. However, we're talking specifically about this project, not about projects like Nobu. Blame Gehry and Mirvish for presenting a 'fantasy' project when they unveiled it a decade ago. I don't think any private developer in the world could afford to build it on that scale and exactly as rendered. If you hadn't seen those initial renderings, how would you rate the latest plan compared to other towers in Toronto (including office towers)? I think they look outstanding. And even when you compare it to Gehry's other RESIDENTIAL projects, it certainly doesn't look like the Dollarama version.

Honestly, it's not bad. Just all the buzz all the time it took I expected something better.
 

TheTigerMaster

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I think that this building is not bad or "cheap" looking. I recommend that people look at the Southern façade of 8 spruce street. It is certainly much more bland and ugly than any side of this project. The truth is, even in NYC, the economics didn't work out for the textured floorplates all the way around and it just happened to be a location where people were mainly going to view it from the north. These towers are going to be seen from all sides over a huge radius and I think that they will certainly stand out in a great way. Attached below is a picture I found on the NY YIMBY website. Photo is by Michael Young.View attachment 389951
I for one am glad that this project hasn't turned out to be a 8 Spruce Street lookalike. I'd rather have something unique to the city, given the landmark nature of this building.

Also, given the materials Gehry has used in the past (see Luma Arles below), I'd caution against writing off Forma's redesign as typical "cheapening". If Gehry is using similar materials here, I'm sure Forma will prove to be far more more refined, mature and spectacular than 8 Spruce.

luma-arles-frank-gehry-parc-des-ateliers-selldorf-architects_dezeen_2364_hero_1.jpg


6._Luma_tower_©_Adrian-Deweerdt_copy.jpg

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EnviroTO

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When I think of this project and all the pre-construction developments on the map... if the government could provide incentives for getting these built now and perhaps allowing workers visas for skilled trades to get these build in the next 2-3 years... maybe the housing crisis would be over. Projects like this one taking over a decade to start are a problem.
 

WeirdFishes

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I for one am glad that this project hasn't turned out to be a 8 Spruce Street lookalike. I'd rather have something unique to the city, given the landmark nature of this building.

Also, given the materials Gehry has used in the past (see Luma Arles below), I'd caution against writing off Forma's redesign as typical "cheapening". If Gehry is using similar materials here, I'm sure Forma will prove to be far more more refined, mature and spectacular than 8 Spruce.

View attachment 390838

View attachment 390836
View attachment 390837
View attachment 390839
I'd agree with you if Forma wasn't just a few boxes. Your comparative example is stunning because it has curves, emulating movement – not because of its glazing. Forma has none of that, just cool cladding. Which, don't get me wrong, will be pretty – but I doubt it will put Toronto on the map.

In the end, Toronto will always be Toronto. Safe, expected, conservative and boring.
 

urbanexplorer

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I'd agree with you if Forma wasn't just a few boxes. Your comparative example is stunning because it has curves, emulating movement – not because of its glazing. Forma has none of that, just cool cladding. Which, don't get me wrong, will be pretty – but I doubt it will put Toronto on the map.

In the end, Toronto will always be Toronto. Safe, expected, conservative and boring.
This feels a bit cynical IMO. What it lacks in movement emulation I think it makes up for in scale. I think there will be something powerful about seeing forms and materials like this on such a large building. But you know what they say about opinions lol...
 

fanoftoronto

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I'd agree with you if Forma wasn't just a few boxes. Your comparative example is stunning because it has curves, emulating movement – not because of its glazing. Forma has none of that, just cool cladding. Which, don't get me wrong, will be pretty – but I doubt it will put Toronto on the map.

In the end, Toronto will always be Toronto. Safe, expected, conservative and boring.

For reference, this is what the Luma Arles looks like from the back:
1649338140689.png


Not nearly as impressive anymore. Kinda like 8 Spruce Street.

Also, you're point of The Forma not putting Toronto on the map when comparing it with Luma Arles, I doubt most of us know where Arles is even though it has this stunning Gehry building with curves, emulating movement (I know I had to Google search the location). Toronto is already on the map with the CN Tower and a myriad of other buildings, The Forma will be be an amazing addition to it. Heck, we already have a Gehry building with curves emulating movement in the form of the AGO.

1649339863447.png


Regardless of anything, The Forma will be twin buildings (one of which is a supertall) with a visually striking form and cladding arguable setting it apart from most other buildings in Toronto.
 

TheSix

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For reference, this is what the Luma Arles looks like from the back:
View attachment 390846

Not nearly as impressive anymore. Kinda like 8 Spruce Street.

Also, you're point of The Forma not putting Toronto on the map when comparing it with Luma Arles, I doubt most of us know where Arles is even though it has this stunning Gehry building with curves, emulating movement (I know I had to Google search the location). Toronto is already on the map with the CN Tower and a myriad of other buildings, The Forma will be be an amazing addition to it. Heck, we already have a Gehry building with curves emulating movement in the form of the AGO.

View attachment 390855

Regardless of anything, The Forma will be twin buildings (one of which is a supertall) with a visually striking form and cladding arguable setting it apart from most other buildings in Toronto.
IMO, no one outside of TO knows that we already have a Gehry. Heck, most people who live in Toronto don't know this. That's because it's a watered down version of what he's known for. Any tourist visiting I've taken to the AGO didn't even bother taking their phone out to snap a pick of the building, or even ask about the architecture.

I'm confident Forma will be a beautiful tower. But IMO, it's a tall box with quality materials, that's it. The street level connection even looks average. Why not create some drama and excitement even at the foot of the building? It's really too bad they couldn't incorporate any curves, what Gehry is known for.

I doubt it will gain any major international attention and I do worry about sales with the recent chatter about pausing international purchasers for the next two years.
 

ProjectEnd

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To add to this, when the city rejected the original 3-tower proposal, Gehry could've simply removed one of the towers and made it work with 2 towers. But instead they went back to the drawing board to completely redesign the towers. I think they realized the original proposal was too outlandish and used the opportunity to reel it back to reality.

Also, can you imagine how much ice would've built up and caused a potential hazard to pedestrians below in the original design? The tissue paper wrap around the 3 towers would've definitely created a myriad of places from where ice can form and later on fall.
View attachment 390087

The new design is much more realistic in its constructability and like others have mentioned, as long as the materials used is top-notch then we will have a couple of outstanding buildings.
This wasn't a 'design', it was an idea. And it wasn't even supposed to go public except that a hapless intern posted the video on YouTube and we were quick enough to get hold of it here before it was taken down...10 years ago (ho boy!). The above was never intended for construction, just to get people tumescent about the idea of tall buildings on King Street.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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This wasn't a 'design', it was an idea. And it wasn't even supposed to go public except that a hapless intern posted the video on YouTube and we were quick enough to get hold of it here before it was taken down...10 years ago (ho boy!). The above was never intended for construction, just to get people tumescent about the idea of tall buildings on King Street.
Are we surprised that the public and its also hapless reporting media took this literally as what they where intending to build there? The concept of "placeholder" is a little too sophisticated for many.
 

Lenser

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This wasn't a 'design', it was an idea. And it wasn't even supposed to go public except that a hapless intern posted the video on YouTube and we were quick enough to get hold of it here before it was taken down...10 years ago (ho boy!). The above was never intended for construction, just to get people tumescent about the idea of tall buildings on King Street.
"tumescent," LOL! Well said. And agreed, the engineering to actually realize that first vision would indeed have been horrendous and cripplingly expensive.
 

Northern Light

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This wasn't a 'design', it was an idea. And it wasn't even supposed to go public except that a hapless intern posted the video on YouTube and we were quick enough to get hold of it here before it was taken down...10 years ago (ho boy!). The above was never intended for construction, just to get people tumescent about the idea of tall buildings on King Street.

In reverse order..............Deep knowledge of the Lexicon does not hide your R-rated references!

****

As to original design, which was, I agree never intended to be built...........there is one thing from it I wish had been brought forward, the more colourful metallic tones.

To see the current design but w/more of a copper-tone take would be more interesting to me than what we're getting which is original, but for its colour-palette.,
 

UrbanOzz

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When I think of this project and all the pre-construction developments on the map... if the government could provide incentives for getting these built now and perhaps allowing workers visas for skilled trades to get these build in the next 2-3 years... maybe the housing crisis would be over. Projects like this one taking over a decade to start are a problem.
while i agree projects need to happen sooner, i don't think this building will do anything for the housing crisis. The housing crisis is about affordable housing, not quite what this development is about.
 

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