Toronto Ellie Condos | 105.76m | 31s | G Group | Kirkor Architects

Not really happy if Centrium2 is basically the same as Centrium1,.... the first floor retail will be those PacificMall type cubical stores,....arghhhh!!! I was hoping that the first floor retail space would be redesigned,... But at least the south end will have St.Lawrence type retail stores that would match the adjacent north end of Beacon which will have St.Lawrence Market retail area and an open space in between for outdoor farmers market,...... now to get the city to close off that planned little roadway between this building and Beacon,.... so that there will be a nice open space there for the farmers market and whatever ethnic food market events,.... if this building goes up then the Beacon access road could be to the west of this building instead of off Yonge.

Done,... the open space between the St.Lawrence Market type area along the south side of this Centrium2 development and the St.Lawrence Market type area along the north side of Sorbora's Beacon development will not have a little temporary roadway since construction of Centrium2 is expected to begin before Beacon finishes,.... this open space area between the two developments will become paved over for outdoors farmer market as part of Section 37 public realm space,.... full public access on private property. As well as both strips of St.Lawrence Market retail spaces,.... retail space handed over to the city,.....
 
Hoarding is up now (taken today):
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I'm confused by the terms you are using to refer to this development. Am I right in assuming that Centrium1 means the previous proposal that went bust, and Centrium2 is Ellie? Or are there 2 proposals?
 
I'm confused by the terms you are using to refer to this development. Am I right in assuming that Centrium1 means the previous proposal that went bust, and Centrium2 is Ellie? Or are there 2 proposals?

Correct. Centrium/Centrium1 is the Korean-mall and hotel proposal that went bust and subject to deposit fraud.

Centrium2 is the current G-Group proposal on the same land which they call Ellie-Condo that basically kept the development application basically the same since it was already approved but they changed the hotel to office space, cosmetic changes, less PacificMall like retail, etc,... The original Section37 Community Benefits have remained the same - including the St.Lawrence Market type second segment at along the south side of the street level. Which will meet with the adjoining Sorbora - Beacon St.Lawrence Market type first segment along the north side of street level from that development.

Original Korean Centrium VS G-group's Centrium2/EllieCondo is really the same proposal,.... at least from a City Planning technical aspect; in that, its the same built-form, density, zoning, etc,... When the new owner/developer (G-group aka Guizzetti Development) took over, the use the exact same development application that's already been approved for the original Korean Centrium,.... they just modified the original development proposal which was already approved to change the commercial hotel to commercial office space (got bonus points from city planning for that) and minor cosmetic exterior changes. Different owner/developers,... but it's really the same development proposal that's already been approved,... and hence, that's why I just call it Centrium2,.... even before the new owners/developer marketing name of EllieCondo became known.
 
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Correct. Centrium/Centrium1 is the Korean-mall and hotel proposal that went bust and subject to deposit fraud.

Centrium2 is the current G-Group proposal on the same land which they call Ellie-Condo that basically kept the development application basically the same since it was already approved but they changed the hotel to office space, cosmetic changes, less PacificMall like retail, etc,... The original Section37 Community Benefits have remained the same - including the St.Lawrence Market type second segment at along the south side of the street level. Which will meet with the adjoining Sorbora - Beacon St.Lawrence Market type first segment along the north side of street level from that development.

Original Korean Centrium VS G-group's Centrium2/EllieCondo is really the same proposal,.... at least from a City Planning technical aspect; in that, its the same built-form, density, zoning, etc,... When the new owner/developer (G-group aka Guizzetti Development) took over, the use the exact same development application that's already been approved for the original Korean Centrium,.... they just modified the original development proposal which was already approved to change the commercial hotel to commercial office space (got bonus points from city planning for that) and minor cosmetic exterior changes. Different owner/developers,... but it's really the same development proposal that's already been approved,... and hence, that's why I just call it Centrium2,.... even before the new owners/developer marketing name of EllieCondo became known.

Is there any chance someone can dig up the Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendments that confirms all this on the Ellie side? Especially in relation to the pedestrian mews and the Section 37 Market?

Thanks!
 
Is there any chance someone can dig up the Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendments that confirms all this on the Ellie side? Especially in relation to the pedestrian mews and the Section 37 Market?

Thanks!


I do find your first post offensive as it questions my integrity and honesty.

Anyways,... Here's the layout of first floor for Centrium2 errr,.. I mean EllieCondo,... Hmmm,... notice the Kirkor logo (architect for G-Group Ellie-Condo) on the right - just in case if you would suspect me of pulling a fast one and posting the old Centrium1 stuff,.... yes, that CityRetail Space along the south-side is the St.Lawrence Market type area which as I stated will be complimented by a similar St.Lawrence Market area on their adjacent north side of the Sorbara Beacon development now under construction,.... in between will be an open space mew called,... "NY Square" how original,.... my recommended "NorthYorkMarket" name didn't get enough internal support!,... I personally blame the Menkes GibsonSquare folks for wanting the "NY Square" name. Market is a much more functional name,... but CityPlanning folks are more focused on creation of public space like public Square,... thus the name "NY Square" won out.

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Anymore questions?,....
 

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Apologies - at no time was I trying to doubt your honesty! The reason I ask is because I have the 5182-5192, 5200 and 5218 Yonge Street document concerning to Sorbara side, but this one has been eluding me. I have been really eager to read the documents and see these maps, which is why I was asking for the link (assuming it is online somewhere).

...They want to call it NY Square and put a massive metal sign up? O.O
 
Apologies - at no time was I trying to doubt your honesty! The reason I ask is because I have the 5182-5192, 5200 and 5218 Yonge Street document concerning to Sorbara side, but this one has been eluding me. I have been really eager to read the documents and see these maps, which is why I was asking for the link (assuming it is online somewhere).

...They want to call it NY Square and put a massive metal sign up? O.O

Well,... in that case go to the following link,.... click on "Supporting Documentation" and knock yourself out,...
http://app.toronto.ca/DevelopmentAp...ion=init&folderRsn=2484738&isCofASearch=false

Now these are to documents from Dec 2015 from G-Group & Kirkor,... using the existing zoning already approved for the original Centrium - mainly exterior changes and converting Commercial Hotel space to regular Commercial Office space,.... with regards to the Mews - the design wasn't finalized in terms of landscaping because originally it was to be a temporary driveway until both were built, now it seems like both will be built,... Centrium2/EllieCondo likely 2 years behind,.... but from CityPlanning perspective there's really no major issues with the G-Group Centrium2-EllieCondo proposal,... it's always been just dotting the I's and crossing the T's on their mostly minor cosmetic changes to the original already approved Centrium proposal.
 
...They want to call it NY Square and put a massive metal sign up? O.O

I kid you not,.... what do you expect,.... these are the same CityPlanning folks who brought us "Olive Square",.... east side of Yonge Street just south of Finch Ave East,.... land from condo development directly east between Finch Ave and Olive Ave,.... many have referred to OliveSquare as an over-glorified bus stop! Note: OliveSquare is a nice public space but its a waste of prime land fronting Yonge Street and it basically neuters the southeast corner of Yonge & Finch from any major development which is what you want when Finch West LRT eventually get extended to Yonge (construction starts next Spring from Keele to HumberCollege,.... eventual extension to Yonge is like a 20 year outlook),..... there's also a busy city laneway between OliveSquare and the condo developments,... thus it reduces OliveSquare acting like an open space for the condo development.

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*shakes head*

Well, it doesn't look like the proposal here is destined not to a be success yet, but there are major questions that need to be answered about all season design and how the allocated market sections will be managed in a congruent way. I'm surprised that the shadow effects diagram was not forced to include the Sorbara building, which frankly makes the the maps there more than just a little inadequate to judge things on the building's south face.
 
I kid you not,.... what do you expect,.... these are the same CityPlanning folks who brought us "Olive Square",.... east side of Yonge Street just south of Finch Ave East,.... land from condo development directly east between Finch Ave and Olive Ave,.... many have referred to OliveSquare as an over-glorified bus stop! Note: OliveSquare is a nice public space but its a waste of prime land fronting Yonge Street and it basically neuters the southeast corner of Yonge & Finch from any major development which is what you want when Finch West LRT eventually get extended to Yonge (construction starts next Spring from Keele to HumberCollege,.... eventual extension to Yonge is like a 20 year outlook),..... there's also a busy city laneway between OliveSquare and the condo developments,... thus it reduces OliveSquare acting like an open space for the condo development.

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I'm pretty sure the Olive Square site was conveyed to the city by Pemberton as part of the rezoning for Princess Place. You take what you can get. Plenty of room to build more condo towers around Finch Station that should make this public space even more appreciated regardless of the design. (a forecourt for Princess Place)
 
*shakes head*

Well, it doesn't look like the proposal here is destined not to a be success yet, but there are major questions that need to be answered about all season design and how the allocated market sections will be managed in a congruent way. I'm surprised that the shadow effects diagram was not forced to include the Sorbara building, which frankly makes the the maps there more than just a little inadequate to judge things on the building's south face.


The St.Lawrence Market type shops at both G-Group Centrium2/EllieCondo and Sorbara Beacon are labelled CityRetail and will be handed over to the city as part of Section37 CommunityBenefits and the City will manage it. And of course the City has a great track record of managing city owned retail space,... like the HeroBurger at NathanPhilips Square,... ok, well then, how about the BoardwalkCafe in the Beaches,... or,... gee, there has to be a good example somewhere in this big city! Oh well,.... Anyways, both of these CityRetail space and the NY Square open mew space in between will actually be supervised by a "community board",...

The CityRetail at Sorbara Beacon will have Butcher, Cheese, Fish, Bakery and Deli shop along with interior food court seating area.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-wallman-architects.13050/page-9#post-1152234

I haven't seen a layout of the CityRetail space at G-Group Centrium2/EllieCondo but it should be of similar size and breakdown just that the type of retail will likely be more open to the market,... maybe a juice place, vagan, vegetarian, natural/organic food shop, etc,... Since both of these CityRetail space are indoors with food court, that should take care of the winter and rainy days,....

The NY Square mew open space is more seasonal and designed to host a variety of outdoor market that the community wants,.... IE: one day you could be strolling through NY Square in the middle of a traditional Farmer's Market, the next day it could be a Persian marketplace with the aroma of shish kebab everywhere, the next day Korean BBQ and kim-chi, and on another day the area could be reeking with Chinese stinky-tufu! The outdoor area (NY Square mew) will also be supervised by a community board and I guess managed by the City in the way how they manage and schedule community and public events at MelLastman Square.

This St.Lawrence Market type project was strongly advocated by local councillor John Filion and his staff,.... generally, anything associated with food, Councillor John Filion is there! ;p Councillor Filion advocated his a-la-cart project and his successful DineSafe project which is being copied around the world!

The community board sounds very much like a board full of eager volunteers much like how many other community boards are run in North York Centre under various projects initiated by the community with Councillor John Filion over the years,... like Parkview Community Garden - the city provide the land and initial resources but the volunteers do all the gardening work and the sales revenue goes back into buying new equipment, plants, seeds, etc,... I suspect a very similar system here,...
 
City will actually own both of the CityRetail space in both G-Group Centrium2/EllieCondo and Sorbara Beacon developments,.... and the City will also own the NY Square open space mew in between. None of these areas are POPS (Privately Owned Public Space) aka full public access on private property,.... since they're not private property,... they'll be city owned public property.
 
I'm surprised that the shadow effects diagram was not forced to include the Sorbara building, which frankly makes the the maps there more than just a little inadequate to judge things on the building's south face.

It might be because the original Centrium development proposal came in and got its final report in May 2012,.... before the Sorbara Beacon development proposal came in and got their final report a year later in May 2013
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-47783.pdf
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-58890.pdf

Sorbara Beacon got their final approvals and then started selling,... and then started construction,....

The original Centrium was selling before final approval, down payment fraud cases,.... G-Group came in and acquired the property, and took over the already approved development application,... with some cosmetic changes and converting Commercial Hotel to Commercial Office space,... thus, now with G-Group Centrium2/EllieCondo already assuming the already approved development application from May 2012,.... it would be odd if they did a shadow effect diagram on a Sorbara Beacon tower that wasn't built and didn't even exist in any CityPlanning development application files in May 2012.

The more interesting question would be why the shadow effect diagram doesn't include Menkes GibsonSquare (twin 42 storey at 137.5m) with final report was dated Feb 2010,..... already approved and under construction by May 2012. Thus, it might be the case that for surrounding buildings to be included in the shadow effect diagram, the surrounding building must be not just registered and have final approval but also built or have official occupancy permits.
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-27578.pdf
 
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