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Northern Light

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So many talks of tenants lined up for various projects, the westin convention center office development and now this, very surprising ... let's see which of them are true though :)
There are a few of us here w/some measure of insight into some of the proposed projects.

That may be through direct knowledge w/the proponents, but also associated law firms, City Planning, architecture/engineering firms, leasing firms, and the prospective tenants etc.

I don't believe anyone is fibbing.

In some cases leases are being negotiated but are not yet signed.

In some cases projects are too early for that, in others a tenant may need to be closer to current lease expiry etc.

Even when leases are signed; they often have a variety of out clauses based on delivery date, or other merit-based criteria, or a simple buy-out.

Prospective landlords may also have outs based on financing.

Nothing really is certain until it HAS happened.

But be assured lots of players, some domestic, some not, are very much in the market for new space, and large amounts thereof.

It's fair to assume not every deal will be consummated. Or at least not in the current cycle.

But I would be genuinely surprised if several of the larger proposals didn't move forward within the next 18 months.
 

tstormers

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Hey Tstormers! Thx for the reply. Given you worked on the project a couple years ago, it sounds like you have some first hand knowledge. Do you have any reason to believe this development will not happen? Or any other updates/ insight into the project you can share? Thank you in advance!
It will definitely move ahead, just timelines have 100% changed from when i was on the project as the Soap building was supposed to already be under construction. There are a few things that need to progress first, which one main one is the flood protection along the Don River and the Lower Donlands redevelopment (river) as the current building is in the flood plan and that needs to be addressed first. I believe CF must be revising some of the approved plans to suit their vision for the site. I am betting on a residential component similar to South Core and the Windsor site in Montreal. So i think these changes and design options have pushed back the start by a year or so. This also gives Metrolinx extra time to design the GO station here as it was only concept back in 2018.

Cheers,
 

afransen

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Are they going to want the GO Expansion in plan in time for Phase A? Ontario Line coming shortly after.
 

tstormers

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Are they going to want the GO Expansion in plan in time for Phase A? Ontario Line coming shortly after.
That was the plan, to have it both open at the same time. I believe it would also want the same opening date to limit the amount of worker cars and have most take transit.
 

interchange42

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The City has been concerned about the supply of land for office towers off into the future, so they are fighting rezoning for residential here tooth-and-nail: they want this as an employment zone only. If they have their way, the only chance of residential going in here some day would be if in—I dunno—a decade's time it's shown that what has been built here is dead after hours without residential?

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Northern Light

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The City has been concerned about the supply of land for office towers off into the future, so they are fighting rezoning for residential here tooth-and-nail: they want this as an employment zone only. If they have their way, the only chance of residential going in here some day would be if in—I dunno—a decade's time it's shown that what has been built here is dead after hours without residential?

42
My understanding is that discussions might have been held to do with the possibility of a community college campus in the mix and whether residential of that express type would be permitted.

I haven't heard of any other sort of residential being mooted.
 

tstormers

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The City has been concerned about the supply of land for office towers off into the future, so they are fighting rezoning for residential here tooth-and-nail: they want this as an employment zone only. If they have their way, the only chance of residential going in here some day would be if in—I dunno—a decade's time it's shown that what has been built here is dead after hours without residential?

42
Yes, one of their concerns was making sure this area doesn't become a ghost-town after 5pm. Trying to keep an animated street and engagement after 5pm.
 

interchange42

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Yes, one of their concerns was making sure this area doesn't become a ghost-town after 5pm. Trying to keep an animated street and engagement after 5pm.
…but their way of addressing that was to have a high quality public realm of destination quality focusing on an entertainment focused area around the reinvigorated area around an expanded Soap Factory building, not through residential.

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smably

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Honest question, are there precedents for lively after-hours office/entertainment districts with no residential component? All the examples I can think of have at least some on-site residential.
 

tstormers

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…but their way of addressing that was to have a high quality public realm of destination quality focusing on an entertainment focused area around the reinvigorated area around an expanded Soap Factory building, not through residential.

42
Yup, I am in agreement with you. I just know we had some studies down with residential. By no means was it approved and it wasn't a lot in terms of square footage 2-3 towers on top of Office. Just was mentioning it had be looked into at one stage of the Master Plan process before it was sold to CF.
 

interchange42

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Honest question, are there precedents for lively after-hours office/entertainment districts with no residential component? All the examples I can think of have at least some on-site residential.
Just to catch everyone up, a couple of years ago, @smably and I (and @ADRM IIRC, maybe others) were all at a public consultation for this project where we engaged planners from the City in this regard. Our concern was exactly what @smably is bringing up here: that some residential is needed to make areas work after hours. The planning department's concern is that they have (they feel) no way of stopping a flood of residential if they let any in, and they really want this area as commercial for its capacity to house more office space in a highly transit-accessible node in a city where that's getting harder to find. After the public discussion, an exec at First Gulf, who owned the site at the time, told me that they were fine with the employment zoning for the time being and would only go after residential later on if it was discovered that the area was not working without it.

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Deadpool X

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Are there any height restrictions for this land parcel? I think having a GO station next to it should help getting some height that will keep the office supply available for many decades.
 

tstormers

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Are there any height restrictions for this land parcel? I think having a GO station next to it should help getting some height that will keep the office supply available for many decades.

Yes. There is shadowing impacts in the area based on the residential to the north. I believe the max height is around the 250-260m range depending on the building location on the site. Pretty tall for not being downtown.
 

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