JayBeeGooner
Active Member
haha. I like the jab at SSE at the end of the article.
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haha. I like the jab at SSE at the end of the article.
Mo-tage
Active Member
The station build out and overall completion of the project is being done under a fixed price/date certain construction contract through a P3 bid process. The schedule in that contract is reasonable, and maybe some would consider it tight. Currently the contractors are heavy in the design phase, I've been told they will break ground in the spring, and then it will be full steam ahead.
I think there is more than enough cash and effort going into this project.
Anna
Active Member
Entrance to Sunnybrook Park - the stone gates - which are also over 1 km from Leslie & Eglinton
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7200...4!1s2x0XDJIobXwVURptUlNU_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
nfitz
Superstar
Which makes Leslie the closest station. The city website clearly says "go to Eglinton and Leslie, and walk to entrance).
howl
Active Member
I think the "Sunnybrook" problem is: everyone has a different understanding of what "Sunnybrook" means. To some people it is the Hospital, to some people the Plaza, and to others the Park. To some people it is the park as technically defined (although I've yet to see a definitive map showing what is Sunnybrook Park, what is Serena Gundy Park and what is Wilket Creek Park) and to others it is the whole conglomeration of parks north and west of Leslie and Eglinton. Having lived in central Toronto for over fifteen years I see Sunnybrook Hospital and Sunnybrook Park as being two distinct entities, the first being located at Bayview and Blythwood and the second being located at Leslie and Eglinton. I know the hospital grounds and the park meet in the middle of the block, and if I were walking to the park from my house I could walk through the hospital grounds but from a tranist-rider point-of-view they are miles part.
We must remember that the reason the Leslie stop was kept was so people could access events at Sunnybrook Park.
We must remember that the reason the Leslie stop was kept was so people could access events at Sunnybrook Park.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The park is of secondary importance to the hospital. Say the word "Sunnybrook" to any common person on the street and the word association they'll immediately come up 9 out of 10 times with is the hospital. As a wayfinding exercise for commuters they'll want to know getting off at the Bayview Station will get them closest to the hospital. That's why reserving that name for the Leslie stop, a totally different location altogether IMO is a huge mistake.
Is Bayview and Blythwood really that far away from Bayview and Eglinton that naming the stop "Sunnybrook" really such a bad descriptor? I don't think so. We already have several occurrences wherein stations in the system are not named for the direct cross intersection but rather neighbouring streets or landmarks, so this can't be too much of a stretch.
Is Bayview and Blythwood really that far away from Bayview and Eglinton that naming the stop "Sunnybrook" really such a bad descriptor? I don't think so. We already have several occurrences wherein stations in the system are not named for the direct cross intersection but rather neighbouring streets or landmarks, so this can't be too much of a stretch.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Really? I beg to differ. To me and most locals I know, the first thing that would come to mind is Sunnybrook Park. I typically forget that Sunnybrook Hospital is even nearby.
This isn't exactly a neighbouring landmark. Maybe from a suburban perspective it is 'close enough' but this is not a suburban area. Walking from Eglinton to Blythwood is the equivalent of walking from Bloor to College.
I think @howl is spot on in his analysis. The fact of the matter is that Leslie station was kept for the sole reasoning because NIMBY's (or I guess YIMBY's) wanted transit access to Sunnybrook Park, for which they would enter through Leslie Street.
This isn't exactly a neighbouring landmark. Maybe from a suburban perspective it is 'close enough' but this is not a suburban area. Walking from Eglinton to Blythwood is the equivalent of walking from Bloor to College.
I think @howl is spot on in his analysis. The fact of the matter is that Leslie station was kept for the sole reasoning because NIMBY's (or I guess YIMBY's) wanted transit access to Sunnybrook Park, for which they would enter through Leslie Street.
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Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
If a statio is to named NOT after an intersection or place of interest, we might end up with nonsense station names.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious next station. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious next station. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Ozman
Active Member
Oh come on. Very few people use public transit to access a park like Sunnybrook. The locals walk there, cyclists cycle there and people going to special events at the stables or sports fields generally drive there. The Leslie stop was kept because a very small but loud group of YIMBY's from the few condos on Leslie (just north of Toyota/Lexus on the Park) got their Councillor Jaye Robinson to fight for it. She took up the charge even though it's only a very small sliver of her ward that dips down on Leslie and touches Eglinton where these condos and the stop will be. Inexplicably the Leaside Property Owners Association jumped on board and supported Robinson and the condo owners even though neither the condos nor the stop are in Leaside. Perhaps because some of the condo residents are former Leaside residents, I don't know. The LPOA's involvement led to the erroneous press reports of "Leasiders fight to save their Leslie stop" which of course was pure dung. No one in Leaside would ever walk down the hill/up the hill on Eglinton to use the Leslie stop, especially in bad weather. Even from the easternmost edge of Leaside it is a closer walk to Laird station than Leslie and with no hill.
Incidentally I doubt that many condo residents will use this stop anyway as they mostly drive. The bus stops (both directions) on Leslie near the condos and park entrance never have more than a couple of people at them ever. Robinson pushed it so she could claim in her 2014 re-election bid that she was fighting for her constituents while it cost her nothing. The massive inconvenience to Leasiders of having Eglinton restricted by the TBM launch shaft and who receive no benefit from the Leslie stop does not matter to Robinson as she doesn't represent Leaside. It was a politically savvy move by Robinson; subtle but led to a poor outcome. Had the launch shaft been built in the Science Centre north lot at Don Mills it would have made a lot more sense.
Now, the condo dwellers will still have to walk about 300m down (and up) Leslie to wait in the open air Leslie stop. Or the few who use transit at all could get on the bus at their front door (as they do now) and take it directly to Laird Station and wait underground for LRT or alternatively stay on board the bus and go directly to Line 2 at Donlands station or go north to Line 4 at Leslie subway station at Sheppard.
If they want to name this stop (which will probably have Bessarion-like ridership numbers) after the park the only two logical choices are Wilket Creek Park (park north side of Eglinton at Leslie) or E.T. Seton Park which is on the south side of Eglinton , directly south of the LRT platforms. Maybe they could get corporate sponsorship and simply call it "On the Park" stop.
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nfitz
Superstar
So we should name it after something few have heard of, even though it's at the primary entrance to a major park most have heard of?
44 North
Senior Member
Had they not added a surface stop at Leslie, are you saying the original plan was to have the launch shaft at Don Mills instead of Brentcliffe? I was under the impression this section was always to be at/above grade.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Hey, I am not disputing any of that! It is a dumb stop, and its addition was the primary reason why we lost the much superior south-side alignment between Laird and Don Mills. Those condo YIMBY's on Leslie and the LPOA essentially fought in favour for the inconvenience of having LRT vehicles interrupt their left turns at Leslie&Eglinton.
But the station is here now and that whole debate is over. I echo what @nfitz said. Though, I am not opposed to a "Leslie On-The-Park" name, that could actually be a good compromise.
nfitz
Superstar
The current plan is the original plan. However the very last iteration was an attempt to modify the EA to move the launch location from west of Leslie to just north of the Science Centre parking lot, and eliminate the Leslie stop. However the outcry from the community made it clear that the EA process wouldn't be simple, so they reverted to the original plan, despite the current launch location being more complex than originally anticipated.
See http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...fight_to_put_leslie_stop_back_on_the_map.html
Ozman
Active Member
It was originally to be above grade, then (I believe in late 2012) Metrolinx proposed tunnelling from Don Mills (under the Don River) so that it could be grade separated all the way from Mount Dennis to Don Mills which is a major hub. If they were to keep the Leslie stop it would now have to a full underground station and they said the low ridership numbers couldn't justify the $100 million plus for a full station so they proposed eliminating Leslie and having no stops between Laird and Don Mills which was always to be underground. Metrolinx got too cute by half though, and tried to sell the change at public meetings as being necessary because they COULDN'T build the launch shaft at Brentcliffe. They said it was too narrow and to close to Scenic condos south of Eglinton and digging might disrupt the condos' foundations. Of course, as we've seen, that is pure bull as they have built the launch shaft there but perhaps it took longer in order to protect the slope from collapsing. Metrolinx needed the public meetings because the proposed change would need an EA amendment. They thought they could just slide it through quickly and they'd be away. The Leslie condo YIMBY's fought loud and hard (all 12 of them) and with LPOA's and especially Robinson's voices they put up such a stink that Metrolinx said they couldn't wait any more. In spring 2013 they reverted to the original plan. By not being honest, Metrolinx lost all credibility and so therefore lost the chance to build a much superior tunnel to Don Mills. At one of the few meetings where actual engineers attended, a Metrolinx engineer told me he was disgusted that they weren't launching at Don Mills. It would have created much less chaos on Eglinton between Leslie and Brentcliffe, would have been easier to build as there is a lot more room for a shaft at the Science Centre lot and in the long run would have created a much better LRT line with full grade separation through to Don Mills (and maybe someday a relief line interchange there).
Because of headway differences between the in-median and underground portions of the LRT, every second train will short-turn at Laird even though it won't have near the riders that Don Mills will. Ironically, the Leslie condo dwellers will probably be far better off bussing to Laird station with twice the frequency of trains then waiting twice as long, after a longer walk, in the elements, for a train at their hard-won Leslie stop.
Ridiculous.
Rainforest
Senior Member
It is quite unfortunate that they missed the oppurtunity to build a fully grade-separate line all the way to Don Mills. Local interests tramped the interests of the city-wide network.
But, I guess this ship has sailed.
I am not sure if they will even run a short-turn branch. If they do so, it will be for the benefit of Eglinton West (Mt Dennis to Yonge will have high demand), but of little use for Eglinton East even if high demand exists between Don Mills and Yonge.
Let's hope that DRL East makes it all the way to Eglinton soon enough, to divert part of the deman and avoid capacity issues on Eglinton East.