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Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s

crs1026

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Remember how the media was screaming murder over the TYSSE delays?

Actually, TTC did the same thing with TYSSE. They waited until the overrun added up to about $450M before they publicly announced a delay. They must have known earlier, when the overrun was only say $200M, or $300M. Part of that pause however was figuring out a recovery plan so when they came clean, they could say what they were doing to fix the problem.
In ML's case, their own recovery plan seems to be to hint that they will take Crosslinx to court. Like they took Bombardier to court over tram order (and lost). And like they already took Crosslinx to court (and lost). ML likes the political theatre of starting a lawsuit, hoping nobody will follow what happens.

- Paul
 

Admiral Beez

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It’s amazing to me that it takes from 2011 to 2023 (or 2024?) to build a partially underground LRT line when we can build dozens of condo towers across this city. No apples to apples I know, but surely ten years, Covid or no is realistic?
 

crs1026

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It’s amazing to me that it takes from 2011 to 2023 (or 2024?) to build a partially underground LRT line when we can build dozens of condo towers across this city. No apples to apples I know, but surely ten years, Covid or no is realistic?

Actually, the bulk of the project did execute fairly smoothly. The thing that hurts is how so much of the line is now sitting ready to use, but is held up by non-completion in some specific places.

Covid may have had effects, but it would be interesting to know how well the labour supply held up at other times. Over the last decade, construction labour has been in a shortage situation in the GTA at various points.

The decision to bore deep tunnels is certainly a factor.... in complexity, this was a major subway scale project. It only looks like an LRT because the easier parts are on the surface. In hindsight, was that decision the right one? This project was never destined to be completed in a few short years.... those deep station excavations (some mined, at that) were always going to take a long time to finish.

The Yonge crossing is the most complex part of the project, so no surprise that it would take the longest.... and there was discovery work. One wonders several things - was the original engineering given sufficient priority considering it was the trickiest task? Was the engineering completed on time (ie, leaving enough time to execute the construction and still finish on time) ? Was there redesign or rework to that design? How much redesign was required once the water problems with the original caissons was discovered? How much did the response to that discovery extend the construction? Should the caisson problems have been anticipated or detected in the original site examinations?

The really, really disgusting part is how the P3 process prevents any possibility of a proper forensic audit or public investigation to determine where things got off the rails. I marvel at how well it prevents accountability and enables political spin and theatre.

- Paul
 
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felix123

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I wish the would construct in a way that we could open a few stations at a time instead of waiting for the whole damn thing to be done.
Fully agree, especially since it sounds like most of the line could be tested and opened earlier, with only a few stations needing to be bypassed.
 

robmausser

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I wish the would construct in a way that we could open a few stations at a time instead of waiting for the whole damn thing to be done.

The issue is that the two stations that are the most delayed are the two most important stations on the line, at Eglinton and Eglinton West.

So opening it before they are done is almost pointless, and they will be the last to be done.
 

cplchanb

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Fully agree, especially since it sounds like most of the line could be tested and opened earlier, with only a few stations needing to be bypassed.
They could've easily opened the Eastern above grade portion and terminate at science centere but in pursuit of their politcal ego verster insisted it all open at once... shame really..
 

cplchanb

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The issue is that the two stations that are the most delayed are the two most important stations on the line, at Eglinton and Eglinton West.

So opening it before they are done is almost pointless, and they will be the last to be done.
It's already been debated endlessly before but there many technical merits on a phased opening such as being able to debug while at a lower operational tempo and to fine tune operations slto be better prepared for the actual real world loads. Testing with no actual ridership can only go so far. A lrv full of water jerries can't simulate the day to day operations of people walking in and out, abusing the doors and fittings and the continuous stop start motions at varying loads.
 

T3G

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You realize the TTC has been operating these for the last 8 years, and should therefore have a ton of operational data that eliminates the need for a phased opening, right?
 

Steve X

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They could've easily opened the Eastern above grade portion and terminate at science centere but in pursuit of their politcal ego verster insisted it all open at once... shame really..
I feel like there is a lot more problems to solve than Eglinton station that is causing the delay.
 

cplchanb

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You realize the TTC has been operating these for the last 8 years, and should therefore have a ton of operational data that eliminates the need for a phased opening, right?
What are you talking about....where has ttc been running flexity freedoms in a real world setting??!
 

cplchanb

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I feel like there is a lot more problems to solve than Eglinton station that is causing the delay.
It was quoted by him that he wants to have it all at the same time even though crosslinx have also publicly said that they are very able to phase it from a technical and operational aspect. It was for sure a bureaucratic decision. You see the language in the press statement? He continually holds crosslinx in contempt every time they make a similar press release. Clearly verster hates the guts out of crosslinx
 

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