Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s

[StroadWarrior]

How/where are they still pouring concrete?? Maybe the outside pavilion or outside in genera. I would hope it's only the finishing touches on the inside but that doesn't seem like the case

To my knowledge, it's mostly just at Yonge & Eglinton at this point. If you go up the escalators at the main entrance to the subway and look out the window, you can see they're pouring what looks like the pedestrian tunnel underneath the intersection, overtop the station box. Will post a pic when I get a chance to go by again. I think all the other stations (save maybe Cedarvale?) are all done with concrete.

 

[smallspy]

just because it hasnt happened doesnt guarantee it wont happen. and besides, this is essentially free revenue that they are passing up with the benefit of
less traffic to shock the system. not to mention this is their first true LRT system and from the smaller street operations they can optimise their operations based on
real world traffic. Considering the negative response to their unwillingness to implement TSP, they could've had a cheap litmus test to see if their decision was a good or bad one.

Of course it won't guarantee that it won't happen. That's why the TTC will operate the system as a test for several months before actually opening the line to the public.

Dan

 

[cplchanb]

Of course it won't guarantee that it won't happen. That's why the TTC will operate the system as a test for several months before actually opening the line to the public.

Dan

test =/= real world. They have an opportunity to do a small rollout that can weed out bugs found in real world operation conditions that testing wont be able to find.
not to mention they will be making money. if they can do it why not instead of just letting the system sit there for months, wasting potential revenue.
right now this is not a technical issue, but a political optic ego issue from Metrolinx.

 

[Steve X]

That's the thing. It's supposed to be an LRT system and yes, by how they plan to run it, the first few months of operations would expose any flaws in their proposed operating model. Having a smaller operation do an initial run would be far more favorable than doing the full rollout just to find that the entire system is flawed

How is this different to the subway/streetcars? Basically this line is half subway and half streetcar.
Does the TTC have experience operating railways?
Does the TTC have experience operating mass transit?
Does the TTC have experience operating LRVs in a ROW?
Does the TTC have experience operating Flexity's?
Does the TTC have experience operating with ATO?
Does the TTC have experience opening new rail lines?

The answer is YES to all of them and NO to all of them for Ottawa (different vehicle type, but same situation)

test =/= real world. They have an opportunity to do a small rollout that can weed out bugs found in real world operation conditions that testing wont be able to find.
not to mention they will be making money. if they can do it why not instead of just letting the system sit there for months, wasting potential revenue.
right now this is not a technical issue, but a political optic ego issue from Metrolinx.

It's not ego, a partial opening without Eglinton would leave many first time riders lost and confused. A bad image would be painted along with potential terrible review of the line. Then people won't get out of their cars again to try again. The want to ensure people's first experience is a positive one, not an adventure where they got lost at Eglinton, ended up outside in pouring rain and stuck behind huge crowds trying to enter through another entrance to connect to Line 1.

 

[T3G]

test =/= real world. They have an opportunity to do a small rollout that can weed out bugs found in real world operation conditions that testing wont be able to find.
not to mention they will be making money. if they can do it why not instead of just letting the system sit there for months, wasting potential revenue.
right now this is not a technical issue, but a political optic ego issue from Metrolinx.

You still haven't specified exactly what kind of bugs they'll find in the real world that they won't find under testing, nor have you answered the question of what happens if a "small rollout" finds no issues, but then some crop up after the grand opening?

Also, partially opening the line is not really great from a customer service angle either. Forcing a transfer just to continue their journey, especially in the cold months that are ahead of us, would roll out angry comments from the Twitter crowd, too. Just leave it be, we've waited 10 years, we can stand to wait a few more months.

 

[TRONto]

Looking mostly done at the bus terminal

 

[Rainforest]

Also, partially opening the line is not really great from a customer service angle either. Forcing a transfer just to continue their journey, especially in the cold months that are ahead of us, would roll out angry comments from the Twitter crowd, too. Just leave it be, we've waited 10 years, we can stand to wait a few more months.

If they open just the segment from Mt Dennis (carhouse) to Eglinton West (Spadina subway), then no forced transfers will be added. Bus 32 will continue running from the west end all the way to Yonge just as it does today.

 

[drum118]

If they open just the segment from Mt Dennis (carhouse) to Eglinton West (Spadina subway), then no forced transfers will be added. Bus 32 will continue running from the west end all the way to Yonge just as it does today.

Lets see:
You take 32 to Mount Dennis, then Line 5 To Eglinton West, then 32 to Yonge, then X to go east of Yonge.

How is this not an force transfer???

What about other routes that currently go to Eglinton West that will stop at Mount Dennis or Keelesdale on opening of part of Line 5????

How do you get riders to Mount Dennis carhouse when there is no access there for them and what happen to Mount Dennis Station????

Sorry, but these dreams are off the wall. Do it right from day one or don't do them at all.

 

[Steve X]

Lets see:
You take 32 to Mount Dennis, then Line 5 To Eglinton West, then 32 to Yonge, then X to go east of Yonge.

How is this not an force transfer???

What about other routes that currently go to Eglinton West that will stop at Mount Dennis or Keelesdale on opening of part of Line 5????

How do you get riders to Mount Dennis carhouse when there is no access there for them and what happen to Mount Dennis Station????

Sorry, but these dreams are off the wall. Do it right from day one or don't do them at all.

Very inconvenient, yes. Let's remember this was how the scrapped Eglinton West subway was suppose to be. Terrible, isn't it.

This saturation is exactly like how one rider raking the 85 from east of Don Mills heading towards Sheppard West/TYSSE (e.g. a York U student) has to experience. Good luck transferring from Line 4 to the 84 Sheppard West bus (asking someone to show you one of the 2 ways before heading out solo is highly recommended). They would probably try to take the 939B instead. York U screwed them over by forcing another transfer at Finch West.

As we know from historic ridership, people didn't like the 139 Finch-Don Mills, 224 Vic Pk North and 268 Warden North heading to Don Mills to take a short subway. We'll see if the 35 Jane split at Mt Dennis would become permanent or be reverted. If the line doesn't go to Yonge, I can safely assume people would avoid Line 5 all together and head directly to Line 2.

 

[Rainforest]

Lets see:
You take 32 to Mount Dennis, then Line 5 To Eglinton West, then 32 to Yonge, then X to go east of Yonge.

How is this not an force transfer???

No, you just take the bus from the west end all the way to Yonge; passing Mount Dennis and Eglinton West while staying on the bus. The short LRT segment will run in parallel with the bus, not instead of the bus.

The LRT will mostly serve riders who live near one of the early open stations (Mt Dennis, Keele, Oakwood, Dufferin). The bus will still do the bulk of work, until the full ECLRT opens.

What about other routes that currently go to Eglinton West that will stop at Mount Dennis or Keelesdale on opening of part of Line 5????

Likewise. No changes to the bus routes while just the short segment of LRT runs. Changes to the bus routes will be in effect after the full ECLRT opens.

How do you get riders to Mount Dennis carhouse when there is no access there for them and what happen to Mount Dennis Station????

You don't need to get the riders to the carhouse. I only mentioned the carhouse location to remind that the suggested early LRT section has access to the carhouse.

 

[drum118]

No, you just take the bus from the west end all the way to Yonge; passing Mount Dennis and Eglinton West while staying on the bus. The short LRT segment will run in parallel with the bus, not instead of the bus.

The LRT will mostly serve riders who live near one of the early open stations (Mt Dennis, Keele, Oakwood, Dufferin). The bus will still do the bulk of work, until the full ECLRT opens.



Likewise. No changes to the bus routes while just the short segment of LRT runs. Changes to the bus routes will be in effect after the full ECLRT opens.



You don't need to get the riders to the carhouse. I only mentioned the carhouse location to remind that the suggested early LRT section has access to the carhouse.

You are forgetting that TTC does not run parallel bus service for any underground system today and will not do what you are calling for. Those buses are to be assign to other routes that was to happen over a year ago regardless of COVID. A pure waste of resources and operation money.

As for the carhouse, you state it and that is a big different between it and the station.

What you want will not happen

 

[T3G]

You are forgetting that TTC does not run parallel bus service for any underground system today

This is not true, Yonge and Sheppard both have parallel bus services running above. And unless they've changed the plan of late, they are going to be running the 34 across the length of the Crosstown.

 

[drum118]

This is not true, Yonge and Sheppard both have parallel bus services running above. And unless they've changed the plan of late, they are going to be running the 34 across the length of the Crosstown.

97 runs part of the route and where no subway exist every 30 minutes carrying few riders due the spacing between stations. Its the same for Sheppard.

Big different between what being proposed for the partly opening of the LRT and no way could a 30 minute headway for 32/34 handle the ridership as proposed.

 

[Rainforest]

Those buses are to be assign to other routes that was to happen over a year ago regardless of COVID. A pure waste of resources and operation money.

Well I wouldn't call it a waste, as the early operation of the LRT segment would assure a smooth grand launch of the whole line when it is ready.

However, the budget constraints are real, and have to be taken into account. Unfortunately, you are probably right; we won't see a staged opening.

 

[T3G]

97 runs part of the route and where no subway exist every 30 minutes carrying few riders due the spacing between stations. Its the same for Sheppard.

Big different between what being proposed for the partly opening of the LRT and no way could a 30 minute headway for 32/34 handle the ridership as proposed.

The 97, at various times, runs along the entire length of the Yonge subway, as does Sheppard.

I know what the reason is for doing so, and you're right that the levels of service are different than what is being proposed here, but as an absolute statement "TTC does not run parallel bus service for any underground system today" is just not true.