Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Neutrino]

How many buses will ECLRT free? Enough to relieve some of the overcrowded bus routes?

 

[rbt]

How many buses will ECLRT free? Enough to relieve some of the overcrowded bus routes?

Great question. Hard to calculate.

1. There's the obvious routes which run along Eglinton which would have a few dozen buses free'd
2. We don't have a bus order other than the hodge-podge of electric vehicles (that I'm aware of) and buses will retire due to old age around the time Eglinton opens; all those vehicles in #1 may simply be scrapped.
3. North/South routes intercepted by Eglinton may see their peak ridership point move north. Riders transferring to Eglinton leave space on a previously occupied vehicle. So, a single trip might move 2 people (one from Lawrence to Eglinton, and a second from St. Clair to Bloor) in the same space that previously moved 1; meaning fewer vehicles necessary for North/South service. It's very difficult to determine this ridership shift in advance so I have no idea whether it'll free up 1 bus or dozens.

 

[MisterF]

The sun doesn't shine as much here in Canada and we have a lot of tall buildings that would block solar panels for much of the day. It somewhat makes sense in open areas like Crosstown East or Crosstown west, but not in core areas. I only say somewhat because the slant of the panels on North side and south side platforms would severely limit their usage potential. It's not like you can track them with the sun making a diagonal pattern across the panels.

Classic Canadian can't do attitude. Sorry if my response comes across as a tad abrupt, but I grow tired of Canadians constantly making excuses about why we can't do things that the rest of the world takes for granted. The example given was Tokyo. Toronto gets an average of 2066 hours of sunshine every year compared to Tokyo's 1877. Needless to say Tokyo also has many, many tall buildings. As far as Eglinton goes, most of that corridor is dominated by low and mid-rise buildings. The only place where they're really tall is at Yonge Street.

Another example is London, where the new Blackfriars Station has solar panels built into its roof. London not only has less sunlight than both Toronto and Tokyo (1633 hours), but it's at a higher latitude as well. Same story with the solar tunnel on the HSR line between Antwerp and Amsterdam.

Solar panels are built into a lot of buildings in Ontario, both public and private. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start popping up on top of transit stations too.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How many buses will ECLRT free? Enough to relieve some of the overcrowded bus routes?

It will free 164 buses. I’m not sure whether the TTC plans to retain or retire those buses following the opening of Line 5.

 

[W. K. Lis]

On average, the life span of a transit is about 12 to 18 years. However, electric buses (including trolley buses) have a life span of 30 years. Since we don't have trolley buses (or electric buses at the moment), the TTC will still have to order replacements buses by the time the Crosstown LRT opens.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Classic Canadian can't do attitude. Sorry if my response comes across as a tad abrupt, but I grow tired of Canadians constantly making excuses about why we can't do things that the rest of the world takes for granted. The example given was Tokyo. Toronto gets an average of 2066 hours of sunshine every year compared to Tokyo's 1877. Needless to say Tokyo also has many, many tall buildings. As far as Eglinton goes, most of that corridor is dominated by low and mid-rise buildings. The only place where they're really tall is at Yonge Street.

Another example is London, where the new Blackfriars Station has solar panels built into its roof. London not only has less sunlight than both Toronto and Tokyo (1633 hours), but it's at a higher latitude as well. Same story with the solar tunnel on the HSR line between Antwerp and Amsterdam.

Solar panels are built into a lot of buildings in Ontario, both public and private. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start popping up on top of transit stations too.

I'm not against increasing the use of solar panels for generating electricity. I am all for it but I'd rather see financial resources used wisely. This means placing them in open areas where they can track the sun. With so little money available for transit funding, we can't be spending millions or billions on solar-powered cathedrals in the middle of a highway interchange (I'm looking at you 407 station).

On average, the life span of a transit is about 12 to 18 years. However, electric buses (including trolley buses) have a life span of 30 years. Since we don't have trolley buses (or electric buses at the moment), the TTC will still have to order replacements buses by the time the Crosstown LRT opens.

Does that include battery buses or just trolley buses? I would think the batteries need replacement far more often.

 

[MisterF]

I'm not against increasing the use of solar panels for generating electricity. I am all for it but I'd rather see financial resources used wisely. This means placing them in open areas where they can track the sun. With so little money available for transit funding, we can't be spending millions or billions on solar-powered cathedrals in the middle of a highway interchange (I'm looking at you 407 station).

I'm not sure why you think solar panels are so expensive. Solar panels and other renewable energy projects generate income for landowners by selling power to the grid. They eventually pay for themselves. Again, this isn't a new concept; they're installed all over the place. I don't really get your insistence on solar panels being in "open areas" either. Those stations in Tokyo with solar panels are in areas that are no more open than most of the Eglinton LRT corridor.

Highway 407 station being a "cathedral" has nothing to do with solar panels.

 

[BurlOak]

I'm not sure why you think solar panels are so expensive. Solar panels and other renewable energy projects generate income for landowners by selling power to the grid. They eventually pay for themselves. Again, this isn't a new concept; they're installed all over the place.

Highway 407 station being a "cathedral" has nothing to do with solar panels.

They lose money for the government though.
If government gives landowners 60 cents per kwh, and sells it for 10 to the public, than the landowner makes out like a bandit, but the government, and the taxpayers who voted for them, are the fools.

 

[Burnt creek]

Solar energy is also more expensive to produce from what i know. And, its not new. The first solar panels in homes that i ever saw was in europe when i visited in seventies. This tells me that the technology is pretty mature and therefore your are not going to see any economies scale or significant lowering of average costs. Interestingly, we i went back 12 years ago, the same people/homes who had them then, no longer had them now.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Berlin, Germany is on latitude 52°26' N. Toronto, Canada is on latitude 43°36'N. Toronto is on a lower latitude. Yet Germany is doing more with solar power than Canada.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Berlin, Germany is on latitude 52°26' N. Toronto, Canada is on latitude 43°36'N. Toronto is on a lower latitude. Yet Germany is doing more with solar power than Canada.

They’re German. It’s to be expected.

 

[MisterF]

They lose money for the government though.
If government gives landowners 60 cents per kwh, and sells it for 10 to the public, than the landowner makes out like a bandit, but the government, and the taxpayers who voted for them, are the fools.

I'm not going to debate the merits of the Green Energy Act here; there's a provincial election thread for that. You might have a more constructive debate if you refrained from insulting the intelligence of your political opponents.

 

[steveintoronto]

For those thinking that alternative energy isn't competitive, I suggest you read some conservative but informed sources.

How's the Financial Times, for instance, which has been running a series on it for a few years now?

The Big Read Renewable Energy
The Big Green Bang: how renewable energy became unstoppable
The shift to cleaner power is disrupting entire industries. Will the 21st century be the last one for fossil fuels?

Google the the bold print title for non-paywall access.

Here's a non-subscription overview from Linked-In:

A summary of the Financial Times article. The Big Green Bang: how renewable energy became unstoppable

• Published on May 23, 2017
• The Financial Times article was written by Pilita Clark and published on MAY 18, 2017

• Financial Times declares a winner in the war for the future of energy. Let’s analyze its article going over the facts:
  
  The Facts
  • In January of 2017, car manufacturers revise and change their R & D investment policy globally.
  1. One after another announced that they are going to put all their investment in R & D into the electric car.
  2. Sales of plug-in electric vehicles last year were 42 % higher than in 2015, growing eight times faster than the overall market. The storage capacity of big lithium-ion battery systems more than doubled last year.
  • Global renewable power generation capacity rose by 9 per cent last year — a fourfold increase from the start of this century.
  1. For the second year in a row, renewable energy accounted for more than half the new power generation capacity added worldwide.
  • However, we must be realistic, oil, gas, and coal still account for about 86 % of the energy keeping the world’s lights on, cars running and homes warm.
  1. Coal and gas-fired power plants are still being built, especially in the developing world where 1.2bn people lack electricity.
  2. Wind and solar power accounted for a puny 4.4 % of global electricity in 2015, and big battery systems can only store enough power to satisfy a few seconds of global electricity demand.
  3. Electric vehicle sales last year were just 0.9 % of all vehicles sold, according to the EV-Volumes consultancy.
  • Even though, the emerging energy transition is already causing trouble for companies around the world.
  1. In Chile, shares in some of the country’s electricity companies, including AES Gener and Colbún, slid in August after they lost out in an auction that pitted renewables against fossil fuel generators for 20-year power contracts.
  2. LNG liquefied natural gas prices have collapsed amid fears of a supply glut that some economists say could linger as renewables become more affordable.
  3. The US solar industry employs more than twice as many workers as the coal sector, a report showed in February.
  The big debate
  The world has been through energy transitions before, often shaping the course of human history. The age of wood gave way to coal in the 1800s. Later on, coal was in turn squeezed by oil and natural gas, transforming the fortunes of Middle Eastern desert kingdoms.
  
  Such shifts usually take decades. It has typically taken 50 to 60 years for a widespread shift from one dominant fuel to another. Replacing a global fossil fuel energy system with today’s crop of renewables is a job that will occupy us “for generations” said Professor Vaclav Smil
  
  Others think the latest energy transition could be swifter because it is driven by deliberate efforts to curb climate change, rather than chance. However, the numbers tell us a different story, the cost of wind turbines fall by nearly a third since 2009 and solar panels by 80 % according to the International Renewable Energy Agency.
  
  We can also underline another advantage for renewables: unlike coal, oil or gas, every country has wind and sun.
  
  The end of subsidies
  Costs are expected to fall further as countries spurn expensive subsidies guaranteeing set prices for generators in favor of competitive auctions or tenders.
  
  Even the experts have been caught out by the pace of the shift. In 2010, IEA projections suggested it could take 14 years before we reach 180 gigawatts of installed solar capacity. It took less than seven years for the world to reach more than 290 gigawatts, nearly the entire generating capacity of Japan.
  
  This time could be different
  Some green energy veterans bruised by past setbacks think there is a reason to be more optimistic today: batteries.
  
  Lithium-ion battery prices have halved since 2014, and many analysts think prices will fall further as a slew of large battery factories are built.Hedging their bets
  
  Meanwhile, some fossil fuel companies are starting to put serious money into green energy.
  
  Seven oil and gas groups, including France’s Total, Royal Dutch Shell, and Norway’s Statoil, have together invested almost $15bn in renewables over the past four years, according to the Oil and Gas Climate Initiative industry group.
  
  None of this means the future of clean energy will be entirely smooth. Indeed, a number of challenging and controversial questions remains unanswered.
  
  What to do with power markets that were never designed for millions of people turning their rooftops into mini power stations?
  
  How to pay for upgrading grids to cope with the influx of all this renewable power?
  
  What to do about incumbent companies calling for the brakes to be slammed on to protect them from green power incursions?
  
  Then there is Mr. Trump, who is seeking to unwind the clean power policies of his predecessor. In the rest of the world, however, the future of green power appears assured. So much so that an industry that has spent years on the defensive is beginning to show a rising sense of confidence.
  
  “Fossil fuels have lost,” says Eddie O’Connor, chief executive of Irelands’s Mainstream Renewable Power. “The rest of the world just doesn’t know it yet.”

• https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/summary-financial-times-article-big-green-bang-how-jesús-esperesate

• 
  Original Article : https://www.ft.com/content/44ed7e90-3960-11e7-ac89-b01cc67cfeec

 

[TransitBart]

It will free 164 buses. I’m not sure whether the TTC plans to retain or retire those buses following the opening of Line 5.

View attachment 135002

They will be required to provide extra service on Finch West due to construction of Finch W LRT on Finch, and on Don Mills to Science Centre Station due to relief line construction on Don Mills, and on Pape due to construction on Pape, and on Queen and Kind due to construction of the interchange stations at Osgoode/City Hall and Queen.

Retire. Fantasyland. Every bus we can get is going to be required.

Afterwards on Sheppard East and West to get the Line 4 connection from Sheppard West to STC.

Also for increased headways on Eglinton East for ECLRT East and increased headways on Eglinton West for ECLRT West.

In fact, I see a bus order coming for 200 additional buses for general construction increased headway requirements and a third additional garage beyond McNicholl + one. But I digress....

 

[TransitBart]

They’re German. It’s to be expected.

Green Energy in Germany has been a big expensive fail like here in Ontario. Electricity prices are soaring. I have direct business experience there. The concept is good. Paying 8 times market for so-called green energy is idiotic. Both in Germany and Ontario.