Cielo Condos | 103.99m | 29s | Collecdev | KPMB

UrbanFervour

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Part of the charm of that section is its low-rise nature -- redevelopment in this area would have to be very carefully done so as to not radically change the character of the area.

I don't consider the character of the area (between Spadina & st.George) charming. The side streets, yes. Bloor itself, no. Redevelopment could bring more retail fronting Bloor and help bridge the shopping areas of Yorkville and the Annex. It's centrality in the TTC network also makes it a good area for careful intensification.
 
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Xray_Crystal_Junkie

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First, since the church will be saved it's obviously set back from Bloor. Second, you could throw a rock and hit one of two subway lines. And lastly you've already got the precedent for that height. Literally beside it you have the Tartu student residences at 18s and across the street you have that massive rental building also at 18s. Not to mention Mosaic Condos at Bloor and Spadina coming in at 20s.

This will not ruin the character of the neighbourhood (if executed properly), in fact it would enhance it with the extra pedestrian traffic. Instead of getting all anxious for a fight over the height (which you will certainly lose), why not push hard for a great street-scape and utilization of the church. Things that actually matter.
 

TrickyRicky

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First off the name is my nomination for worst project name of the year.

Second, I don't go on about height etc. but I think sub 25 storeys is more appropriate.
 

Tulse

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First, since the church will be saved it's obviously set back from Bloor. Second, you could throw a rock and hit one of two subway lines. And lastly you've already got the precedent for that height. Literally beside it you have the Tartu student residences at 18s and across the street you have that massive rental building also at 18s. Not to mention Mosaic Condos at Bloor and Spadina coming in at 20s.

This will not ruin the character of the neighbourhood (if executed properly), in fact it would enhance it with the extra pedestrian traffic. Instead of getting all anxious for a fight over the height (which you will certainly lose), why not push hard for a great street-scape and utilization of the church. Things that actually matter.

I'm not worried about this part of Bloor, which right now is honestly a bit of a wasteland for pedestrians, and this development should do some good. But west of Spadina the streetscape depends on all the low-rise structures, and contrary to the earlier poster I wouldn't want to see such high-rise development extended to that area.
 

Ramako

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I've always thought of Spadina as being the threshold between the Annex Bloor and U of T Bloor. I definitely don't want to see any highrise development on Bloor west of Spadina, but on this site I have no issues. 38 storeys does seem like a bit of a stretch though. My bet is that they're applying for that many in anticipation of a big chop.
 

AlbertC

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This would seem the logical next step for a project as the development on Bloor continues to stretch westwards - it will be interesting to see how or if developers begin to try and work on the 3-storey historic retail+apartment buildings that line Bloor between Spadina and Bathurst. It's also nice to see a commitment to building public and private rental units as well as spaces for special needs tenants at the onset of the project, even if it is still in an 'academic' stage of planning.

Bloor between Spadina and Bathurst is one of my favourite retail strips in the city and needs to be left the way it is. It has a nice vibe and features a great mix of eateries, bars, cafes, and independent shops. I don't see a major need for redevelopment as it's a fairly consistent streetscape and urban fabric of decent 3 storey buildings with little to no blights.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bloor between Spadina and St. George have some redevelopments as it could use some new life. A more reasonable height here would be 20-25 storeys.
 

thecharioteer

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The subway runs underneath the portion of the site just north of the church, so we will probably be looking at either no parking or above-grade parking.
 

arvelomcquaig

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What is unreasonable about 38 storeys? I think it's fine.

I would love to see more development in this hideous wasteland between Spadina and St. George.
 

junctionist

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What is unreasonable about 38 storeys? I think it's fine.

I would love to see more development in this hideous wasteland between Spadina and St. George.

That's quite the hyperbole. Bloor between St. George and Spadina is arguably less engaging than the more commercial area west of Spadina, but it's nonetheless lined with generally well-maintained buildings and interesting landmarks: the Jackman Humanities Building, Bata Shoe Museum, the respectable PoMo Holiday Inn, the Bloor Street United Church, and the U of T's high school. It's not even unattractive, let alone hideous. The public realm is in good shape and clean with buried overhead wires, though the large expanses of concrete sidewalks and asphalt roadway are generic.

Considering that this tower will likely be built on the parking lot behind the church, I don't think that 38 storeys is anywhere close to what could be considered appropriate. It doesn't even front Bloor but rather a side street, where its neighbours consist of low-rise housing and some relatively low towers. On Bloor, that kind of height could be more reasonable, but it's still in excess of the present built form.

There's also an attractive vista of the Bloor Street United Church's picturesque spire with four turrets peaking over the trees and buildings on Huron Street, which is visible as far south as Wilcocks Street at New College. At Huron and Wilcocks, you can see the University College tower and spire to the east and the church's spire to the north. This vista cannot be defended like the more prominent vistas in Toronto such as Queen's Park since it was not likely achieved through deliberate urban planning and not that of such a critical building, but still something positive to note in the present built form of this part of the city. Through the use of setbacks, a tower development at this site can preserve the traditional vista of the delicate spire against open sky and not overpower it.

Lastly, one can't ignore the ridiculous name of this project, which seems to suggest that there's something wrong with it. It is located in one of the more interesting neighbourhoods not just in Toronto but on this continent (and perhaps beyond), and it is the neighbourhood where Jane Jacobs chose to live. This name is vapid colonialism at its worst: rather than embracing and promoting the fascinating and highly-relevant local context, it substitutes an image from from a world-dominating place that's utterly irrelevant. I'd say it's even offensive because it seems to be dismissing something fundamental to what makes this city great: vibrant and beautiful neighbourhoods like The Annex where worlds collide in a peaceful place. This place is one that can accommodate students and struggling intellectuals, affluent professionals, leading thinkers, and people who like to go out and party, even if Bloor and Huron isn't the greatest part of the neighbourhood. In terms of this development, many changes would be needed to make it palatable.
 
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Uncle Teddy

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I guess if you can call the building east of St Lawrence Market Times Square you can name this Times Square North lol
 

ThomasJ

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First, since the church will be saved it's obviously set back from Bloor. Second, you could throw a rock and hit one of two subway lines. And lastly you've already got the precedent for that height. Literally beside it you have the Tartu student residences at 18s and across the street you have that massive rental building also at 18s. Not to mention Mosaic Condos at Bloor and Spadina coming in at 20s.

This will not ruin the character of the neighbourhood (if executed properly), in fact it would enhance it with the extra pedestrian traffic. Instead of getting all anxious for a fight over the height (which you will certainly lose), why not push hard for a great street-scape and utilization of the church. Things that actually matter.


sorry - you say "you've got that precedent for height" but yet you cite two 18-storey buildings and a 20-. How are three buildings in the 18-20 storey range a precedent for a 38-storey tower (ie: double the height)?
 

adma

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The cardinal problems w/that stretch of Bloor is that (a) it's quasi-institutional, and (b) this is where the 20s/30s street-widening began. (Which, incidentally, motivated the reconfiguration of BS United's entrance.)
 

Xray_Crystal_Junkie

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sorry - you say "you've got that precedent for height" but yet you cite two 18-storey buildings and a 20-. How are three buildings in the 18-20 storey range a precedent for a 38-storey tower (ie: double the height)?

In all honesty when I wrote that I had the height from the thread title in mind (20s) and had forgotten that the new application calls for 38 storeys.

While I can see how people might get a little upset over 38 storeys (especially my low-rise neighbours north of this plot), I still think my points hold water. The location is ideal for intensification in regards to the two subway lines and you already have some taller buildings present. At the end of the day it'll probably be chopped down.
 

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