Toronto Chelsea Green (was 33 Gerrard) | 297.25m | 90s | Great Eagle | a—A

[k10ery]

Travis:

The ground level of Sheraton Centre left much to be desired - if there are any need for an intensive intervention that would be it. First thing they should get rid of is the elevated walkway between NPS and Sheraton...

AoD

Why that? I think it's a great piece of pedestrian infrastructure. Instead, the should bribe/cajole Sheraton into unlocking their doors, so people can access Sheraton's terrific roof garden.

Sheraton is a great building and a key piece of the master plan for the City Hall precinct. What's not to like?

 

[ShonTron]

Apart from the base, the Sheraton Centre just needs a good scrub. It's wonderful when there's something going on across the street at NPS (Nuit Blanche, fireworks) and nearly all the rooms are lit up with families watching. I'm not much of a brutalism fan, but Sheraton fits well with City Hall.

The base does suck. There's the old theatre/Bouefteque entrance that's horribly uninviting. The northwest side, with the driveway exit needs help too. Part of the problem is the entrance to the city hall garage that's not the Sheraton's fault. The Delta Chelsea has the same life-sucking parking portal on the Gerrard side.

I'm not a fan of the overhead walkway, but if it were accessible, I might want to keep it. As it is now, it serves no point.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Instead, the should bribe/cajole Sheraton into unlocking their doors, so people can access Sheraton's terrific roof garden.

Although the landscaped atrium garden and waterfall is a visible feature on the ground floor, you can enter it from the second floor, walk up the stairs next to the waterfall to the spaciously landscaped third floor, and walk up to the next level which includes the hotel's outdoor pool, more landscaping, and the hotel's small kitchen garden.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Apart from the base, the Sheraton Centre just needs a good scrub. It's wonderful when there's something going on across the street at NPS (Nuit Blanche, fireworks) and nearly all the rooms are lit up with families watching. I'm not much of a brutalism fan, but Sheraton fits well with City Hall.

The base does suck. There's the old theatre/Bouefteque entrance that's horribly uninviting. The northwest side, with the driveway exit needs help too. Part of the problem is the entrance to the city hall garage that's not the Sheraton's fault. The Delta Chelsea has the same life-sucking parking portal on the Gerrard side.

I'm not a fan of the overhead walkway, but if it were accessible, I might want to keep it. As it is now, it serves no point.

You are absolutely right about the Sheraton centre's architectural qualities above street level. I used to hate this building, but I really just hate the base. The rest of the building is evocative of its era and, as you say, fits in very well with New City Hall.

The Delta Chelsea has a very unfortunate parking entrance on Gerrard that really does compromise the street but it's so convenient from an automobile access standpoint, that I can't see them ever getting rid of it. In an ironic way, it is actually more pedestrian friendly because drivers aren't making blind right turns into the paths of pedestrians or rocketing out of garages directly onto sidewalks like the Millennium Falcon out of an exploding Death Star.

RE: the actual renos of the DC itself.

I despise the Delta Chelsea mainly for its block-spanning presence, and the fact that it basically killed Walton street (we would never be able to pull a stunt like this today). These renos won't do anything to address this, but, then again, nothing could short of demolition - and the Delta Chelsea is simply too big and contains too significant a portion of the city's hotel rooms to ever contemplate outright demolition.

 

[themarc]

w/r the Delta, now is the time to extend the PATH from the Atrium under Elm, through the Delta into College Park. Wont get another chance.

The problem is the housing co-op on Elm - their parking garage is in the way. You'll have to go over somehow...

 

[adma]

Why that? I think it's a great piece of pedestrian infrastructure. Instead, the should bribe/cajole Sheraton into unlocking their doors, so people can access Sheraton's terrific roof garden.

If so, though, that stub of overhead walkway *does* require work, to the underside above all (pigeon netting, pigeon feathers, pigeon corpses, what have you)

 

[adma]

The problem is the housing co-op on Elm - their parking garage is in the way. You'll have to go over somehow...

Or around--in the event that any of the adjoining properties (+ World's Biggest to the rear) see redevelopment...

 

[k10ery]

Although the landscaped atrium garden and waterfall is a visible feature on the ground floor, you can enter it from the second floor, walk up the stairs next to the waterfall to the spaciously landscaped third floor, and walk up to the next level which includes the hotel's outdoor pool, more landscaping, and the hotel's small kitchen garden.

Sadly this requires walking through the godawful lobby.

 

[junctionist]

The Sheraton Centre at sidewalk level is arguably the worst building in downtown Toronto--a dismal failure. Its York Street side is merely parking, presenting nothing to the pedestrian. Bollards evidently had to be installed so cars wouldn't simply drive out of the building onto any part of the sidewalk. The Richmond Street side is almost entirely composed of sterile and featureless concrete walls with some uninviting pedestrian entrances, plastered over windows, and parking garage entrances. The York Street side is a short block, but on Richmond and Queen, it's quite long. You can barely see where it ends in this street view image.

Aesthetically, the Sheraton Centre looks best on Queen at street level, but again, it's a failure, composed of a parking lot entrance, blank concrete walls, and anonymous windows. The only decent part is along Queen Street, east of the main pedestrian entrance: a podium with interesting design and storefronts. But the storefronts seem belittled by the architecture and yet another parking lot entrance (this time a unique ramp from Queen that runs parallel with the roadway); their success is compromised by the general atmosphere of indifference or even hostility that the poorly conceived architecture at sidewalk level results in. At the very eastern edge, there's this shopping entrance that looks so sterile, dark, and uninviting. The Sheraton Centre is awful at sidewalk level and degrades the pedestrian experience at a prominent location along Queen Street West, but also along York and Richmond Streets.

Perhaps the idea behind the architecture was of a downtown where the sidewalk no longer mattered, where pedestrians would walk through basements and +15 corridors. After all, there's a bridge that connects the elevated walkways of Nathan Phillips Square to the hotel where its beautiful podium rooftop garden is located. Except that the entrance is locked, rendering even this positive feature of the pedestrian environment impotent. The sidewalk level of the Sheraton Centre should be completely redesigned to make the pedestrian experience more engaging and to restore a positive sense of place across from Nathan Phillips Square.

 

[adma]

Perhaps the idea behind the architecture was of a downtown where the sidewalk no longer mattered, where pedestrians would walk through basements and +15 corridors. After all, there's a bridge that connects the elevated walkways of Nathan Phillips Square to the hotel where its beautiful podium rooftop garden is located. Except that the entrance is locked, rendering even this positive feature of the pedestrian environment impotent. The sidewalk level of the Sheraton Centre should be completely redesigned to make the pedestrian experience more engaging and to restore a positive sense of place across from Nathan Phillips Square.

Well, at the moment it was constructed, it was still an open question whether Toronto was to adopt the PATH approach or the +15 approach to off-street downtown circulation (and that uncertainly continued well into the 70s, if one considers the +15 allusions at FCP and RBP and, most of all, the bizarre roof patio at the Hilton-181 Uni-150 York complex which looks like it ought to have Ron Burgundy-esque staffage strolling about)

 

[junctionist]

Well, at the moment it was constructed, it was still an open question whether Toronto was to adopt the PATH approach or the +15 approach to off-street downtown circulation (and that uncertainly continued well into the 70s, if one considers the +15 allusions at FCP and RBP and, most of all, the bizarre roof patio at the Hilton-181 Uni-150 York complex which looks like it ought to have Ron Burgundy-esque staffage strolling about)

Admittedly, to step out of the Sheraton Centre via the bridge, enter NPS on the overhead walkway with a full view of the square, and then descend to the square sounds like a grand experience of the Modern downtown. But the walkway system didn't take root and PATH isn't that interesting beyond the idea of it and the statistics. In retrospect, neither the overhead nor underground walkways can match the experience of a vibrant traditional street. It's undesirable for the Sheraton Centre's sidewalk level to stay in its current form for long.

 

[k10ery]

Not many hotels have a pedestrian-focussed street front. Sheraton is better than Trump, at least. To improve the Queen St. side of NPS the solution to me is simple: get rid of the busses and hot dog trucks.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

k10ery:

Sheraton is better than Trump, at least. To improve the Queen St. side of NPS the solution to me is simple: get rid of the busses and hot dog trucks.

I don't think Trump is that terrible at the ground level. At the very least, the frontage is relatively short - unlike the block spanning Sheraton. The lack of an entrance to the parking garage right smack on the sidewalk also helps.

While I am not a big fan of the chip trucks (not so much so the concept but the awful condition they are in and the smell they generates), I highly doubt that their removal would improve anything - in fact, it will probably makes it worse by de-animating the already wanting stretch of Queen.

AoD

 

[junctionist]

The Sheraton Centre is a lot worse than Trump for the amount of street frontage it has and the more prominent location from a civic standpoint. So making changes, even if they're not traditional for hotels, could have substantial benefits for this part of the city. Several different uses can be lined up to better animate the street such as restaurants, entertainment venues, coffee shops, conference centres, and galleries. Maybe it's just a matter of better windows and some inviting entrances to whatever is behind those concrete walls. These uses may not be novel, but seem appropriate at this prominent place. We need an antidote to the sterility and harshness of the present form of the Sheraton at sidewalk level. There's really no reason that this part of the storied Queen Street West has to be the dull part (Nathan Phillips Square aside).

 

[k10ery]

k10ery:



I don't think Trump is that terrible at the ground level. At the very least, the frontage is relatively short - unlike the block spanning Sheraton. The lack of an entrance to the parking garage right smack on the sidewalk also helps.

While I am not a big fan of the chip trucks (not so much so the concept but the awful condition they are in and the smell they generates), I highly doubt that their removal would improve anything - in fact, it will probably makes it worse by de-animating the already wanting stretch of Queen.

AoD

I'm all for animating the north side Queen frontage with more small retail, but trucks with engines running are not how I'd choose to do it. The noise, garbage, and degraded grass are a real turnoff at the moment. We'll see what if anything the current revitalization brings to this part. With two major streets running through the space it will never be the Brussels Grand Place but it can at least be neat and inviting.