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Bay Adelaide Centre | 218m | 51s | Brookfield Property | KPMB

buildup

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"just saying" is played?

Really?!

Have to agree that a few words in support of shade are called for. If its a cold day you can bundle up, a bit of sun isn't going to help much. Whereas blazing heat can ruin a suit, and unless you're comfortable with a sun umbrella there's no escaping. Here's to more respect for shade!
 
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I sure hope that 1/2 billion bucks can build something with more density and taller than a 43-storey, 900,000- square-foot office tower nowadays in Toronto, especially when you already own the property.
 

taal

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A tower being built on spec? Isn't that how the original BA died?
Yes and no.

But that won't be the case here, as this is not being built!! I'm not sure why everyone thinks it is - yes apparently there's some rumbling about 500 million for something or another. That's all were going on, was that even from a credible source maybe they're simply trying to gather the construction costs.

When tenants are secured for these sort of projects they make it very well known - that's why you can say without much doubt no major tenants have been secured for this project or the final office tower in the south core! There are a couple other office projects floating around and again no announcements.

All the newly built towers are just about 90-100% full though, having said that, there are huge chunks of space in some of the older buildings. There's a little bit under 400K (yes 500K!) in commerce court west going to be available in the next year (most of it already is). It's a similar story in 2 of the TD tower complex towers (one also just about 400K). FCP probably has a good 100K (it has more but in one chunk). All of this space is contiguous or can be made such. Even in the hey day i.e. where there was 3-4% vacany rates the larger towers did have space available - but they weren't contiguous, you were lucky to find one floor together, now there's 10-15+ floors in one building together!

Anyway, I think we might see 1 tower go up spec this year because they already made announcement. I think that's all we'll see in 2011. More to come 2012 maybe. Most of the vacancy reports for Canadian cities predict increasing vacancies for the first half of the year and slight leveling off during the last half - little growth overall. But things supposedly pick up late 2011 - 2012.
 

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With so much going on i dont think anyone here can predict whats in store regarding office demad in this financial powerhouse city of ours , thats why im going to stay away from the doom and gloom and predict we will see two new major office tower announcements by the end of 2012...call me crazy lol:D
 

taal

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With so much going on i dont think anyone here can predict whats in store regarding office demad in this financial powerhouse city of ours , thats why im going to stay away from the doom and gloom and predict we will see two new major office tower anouncements by the end of 2012...call me crazy lol:D
Crazy! :)

btw I'm not at all on the doom and gloom band wagin, I did say 1 tower after all, let's not get greedy now :) Also recall, for Toronto, this is not the norm, we haven't seen this much construction in years / a decade.

I'm really hoping the Queen Richmond center west will go ahead soon though as well:
http://queenrichmondcentrewest.com/view.htm


But I am predicting doom and gloom for the rest of Toronto :) Sorry, but that's the norm and it doesn't seem as if that's bothered anyone in the last decade, so business as usual (or lack there of I should say).

In all honesty, a couple new towers probably could go ahead but that may actually lead to nearly 100% vacant older giants in the financial core which is sad to me but I guess in some ways progress. We can then spend the next 5 years trying to fill up that older space.
 

Ramako

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In all honesty, a couple new towers probably could go ahead but that may actually lead to nearly 100% vacant older giants in the financial core which is sad to me but I guess in some ways progress. We can then spend the next 5 years trying to fill up that older space.
I fear that possibility only because I don't want the owners of those olders towers to suddenly get the idea to reclad them.
 

taal

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I fear that possibility only because I don't want the owners of those olders towers to suddenly get the idea to reclad them.
Not sure what you mean, the new competition is great in just about every single way possible. It forces the older buildings to retrofit and make upgrades - some of this includes improving the street scape which is a plus for everyone.

Unless you mean, like FCP, make a decision to improve that some might argue comprises the original design - in that case sure I can see why some may be worried about.

Another thing to worry about is even with all the modernization they'll still sit empty as there's only so much you can do - really a drop in net rental rates are required. Not sure if the new towers get tax breaks as well, these would most likely be eaten up by the owner of the tower and not the tenants - which is a good thing.
 

johnwood

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no more mediocre buildings

toronto has to stop settling for mediocre buildings and build a building that truly stands out, one that is at least 350m tall.
 

sodapop

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i don't think we have the need for the square footage that would be in a 350 meter plus building (office that is) maybe residential but thats still pushing it, i would like a supertall though if we had the need for it
 

maestro

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I agree the monopoly of REITs and pension funds need to step up their game however, height has relatively little to do with it.
 

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Unless something new out of the ordinary gets proposed ( for example..Manu-Life Tower or new tower to existing bank complex ), here is my 2cents of todays 10 most likely to unlikely Toronto proposed office structures that will eventually get built.

MaRS Discovery Ctr,W Unknown
Queen Richmond Ctr.W Allied Properties REIT
1 Sultan Street St. Thomas Com. Dev.
Bay Adelaide Ctr- 2 Brookfield Properties
16 York Street office Cadillac Fairview Corp
Richmond Adelaide Ctr. Oxford Properties Dev.
Brookfield Place III Brookfield Properties
45 Bay Street SITQ
171 Front Street west Allied Properties REIT
880 Bay Street Ontario government
 

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