AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Thats a weak point, to constantly trash talk one of Canada's top builders
One look at 300 Front and you can tell me all about "weak points".
AoD
Toronto Aqualina at Bayside | 47.85m | 13s | Tridel | Arquitectonica
- Thread starter 3Dementia
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One look at 300 Front and you can tell me all about "weak points".
AoD
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Id say, look at the big picture
In 2015 the company built more than 10 million square feet of LEED certified buildings
http://www.newswire.ca/news-release...-homes-named-gtas-top-builders-577565591.html
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
This is a project thread, often with a focus on architectural quality (and being on the waterfront, so it especially shall). Quoting me that it built 10M sq. space is meaningless in that context.
AoD
TheKingEast
Senior Member
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Tridel is a good developer. I wouldn't even say their architecture choices are bad.
They just have a tendency to go cheap on their window walls, and seeing as not many of us will see the inside facilities or units, that is what most of us care about. How it looks from street-level and afar in our skyline.
wmedia
Senior Member
You will find an endless phobia of window-wall, spandrel and heavy mullions on this forum. Yes, it's tiring. Could the cladding of been better? Yes. Same with any development, however average cladding on average buildings, is not going to stop, and it shouldn't, unless you want to live in a static city.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
I think given the location here and this being the 1st project in a new neighbourhood, it would have been nice for them to step it up just a bit. I'm not complaining but they use the same exact window system from projects they developed 10+ years ago. So I understand the criticisms. Tridel's still a great builder, though.
Towered
Superstar
Yes, because asking for something other than generic, cheap grey spandrel in a key location from the region's top builder is such a tall order.
modernizt
Senior Member
If UT has a "phobia" of those things, then you have a phobia of good architecture. Also your entire post is a straw man argument.
I guess it takes all types around here, including those who defend mediocrity, defend greed and poor design choices, and espouse the deeply flawed belief that developers are victimized by this city. I guess some people just need to be contrarians.
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P23
Active Member
It's just the budget cladding of the day. Same as concrete before glass came around, brick before that, mud and straw before that. 10 people complaining on an internet forum isn't going to change the way people build cities.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
No, perhaps not on its own, but Tridel have 'admitted' that UT's displeasure with their recent results has spurred them into a more 'design-oriented' mindset. So while "10 people complaining on an internet forum isn't going to change the way people build cities," evidently it can have some effect on some of the buildings which make up those cities.
What's more, it's less the material itself and more how it's used / applied. Hire lazy, unconcerned outfits like Kirkor and G+C and you'll see more floorplans that aren't properly resolved so that huge swaths of the stuff is pasted to the outside. Conversely, one can even use it as a design element as aA did over 10 years ago at Woodsworth College Residence or more recently at Peter Street Condos.
It's not so much that there are inherent problems with spandrel, it's just disappointing to see it consistently used to cover up laziness and / or an unconcerned attitude towards a final product by a developer who really should know better.
What's more, it's less the material itself and more how it's used / applied. Hire lazy, unconcerned outfits like Kirkor and G+C and you'll see more floorplans that aren't properly resolved so that huge swaths of the stuff is pasted to the outside. Conversely, one can even use it as a design element as aA did over 10 years ago at Woodsworth College Residence or more recently at Peter Street Condos.
It's not so much that there are inherent problems with spandrel, it's just disappointing to see it consistently used to cover up laziness and / or an unconcerned attitude towards a final product by a developer who really should know better.
DSC
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The point is that a potentially rather good building can be spoiled by the cheapening of very obvious things like window wall and it's a great pity - though not surprising. In Tridel's case they do seem to be fairly good with the basic architecture but far too often spoil their buildings by cutting corners. I have not QUITE decided about this building but the small amount of window wall now up is not encouraging.
I am not of the opinion that all suite walls facing the outdoors need to be windows, and I think that it's a stretch to say that any wall space on the exterior represents lazy design. The City has mandated 60% solid walls compared to 40% glass on building envelops now to reduce heat loss/heat gain, so we just can't have all windows any more.
What I'm not crazy about is back-painted glass spandrel as the now dominant solution to this challenge in Toronto, unless the architects can play with the colours in more interesting ways. There are far more visually engaging ways of dividing windows than with back-painted glass spandrel, but they are all more expensive, so we get less of them.
That said, it's too early to declare on every aspect of the building yet, but I am encouraged that we're getting harmoniously tinted mullions, frames, and spandrel here so that we do not end up with the distracting million-mullion-mess that we've seen on too many projects as of late where the metal contrasts highly with the spandrel. I would have liked to have seen more expensive curtain wall here too, but Tridel likely looked across the street at Monde and saw that it was selling slowly, and that they had to come in at a lower price point. After all, this as one of the earlier projects in the area, and people are typically not willing to spend as much when they are the pioneers in an area. Note as well that Tridel's second and third offerings in this area are going successively higher end.
Massing-wise, I think Aqualina is looking great, the sawtooth effect is both very engaging (as well as appropriate for condo dwellers who want to be able to see the water from their suites), it's appropriately scaled for the park to its west, and well articulated—or nicely broken up—for something that's a long slab. The long red frames down by the water appear that they will add real interest to the building when complete, and I'm glad that money is being ploughed into the structure there to up its game.
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What I'm not crazy about is back-painted glass spandrel as the now dominant solution to this challenge in Toronto, unless the architects can play with the colours in more interesting ways. There are far more visually engaging ways of dividing windows than with back-painted glass spandrel, but they are all more expensive, so we get less of them.
That said, it's too early to declare on every aspect of the building yet, but I am encouraged that we're getting harmoniously tinted mullions, frames, and spandrel here so that we do not end up with the distracting million-mullion-mess that we've seen on too many projects as of late where the metal contrasts highly with the spandrel. I would have liked to have seen more expensive curtain wall here too, but Tridel likely looked across the street at Monde and saw that it was selling slowly, and that they had to come in at a lower price point. After all, this as one of the earlier projects in the area, and people are typically not willing to spend as much when they are the pioneers in an area. Note as well that Tridel's second and third offerings in this area are going successively higher end.
Massing-wise, I think Aqualina is looking great, the sawtooth effect is both very engaging (as well as appropriate for condo dwellers who want to be able to see the water from their suites), it's appropriately scaled for the park to its west, and well articulated—or nicely broken up—for something that's a long slab. The long red frames down by the water appear that they will add real interest to the building when complete, and I'm glad that money is being ploughed into the structure there to up its game.
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Miscreant
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On the note about whether the use of spandrel here at least partly stems from budgetary concerns raised by Monde next door, I'll add in Tridel's defense that the city was supposed to get its act together with an LRT here years ago and has utterly failed to do so. Had it done otherwise, this area would be selling like gangbusters and likely Tridel would be able to invest more per unit than they otherwise are.
Perhaps not. But the city bears some responsibility for slow sales--and hence depreciated units--here.
Perhaps not. But the city bears some responsibility for slow sales--and hence depreciated units--here.
tripwire
Active Member
For me, my biggest complaint is the mullions on the (usually sold as floor to ceiling) windows. I've always found that it adds a lot of cluttering lines (both inside and out).