88 Scott Street | 203.9m | 58s | Concert | P + S / IBI

Ramako

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Royal and Sun Alliance is abandoning the building for Southcore. I rather not see the building replaced with residential and 58 storeys will be a tough sell so close to Old York

Agreed on the residential, but is height really an issue here, at what is essentially Yonge and Wellington? It may be close to Old York, but it's not in Old York - it's still the central business district. What could this tower possibly overwhelm? Look up from Berczy Park and you'll see literally a half dozen much taller MINT towers already looming overhead. Do those somehow harm the ambiance of the St. Lawrence neighbourhood?

I just don't get it. Are there no places in downtown Toronto where something of this height wouldn't be deemed "too tall" for some reason or another? Why are people so instantly terrified of tall buildings?
 
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Build Up

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It says 58 story tower on a 5 story podium. So is it 63 or 58? Either way its a nice step down from the mint towers as of right now it is the huge blank faces of scotia and commerce court when looking from the east
 

carturo15

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height should not be an issue on this location. If Concert is going to offer something similar in terms of quality and finishes as the Berczy, they should not have any problem selling 58 stories or 500 units. The location can't be better
 

Big Daddy

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Follow up to my previous post - one of the reasons for choosing toronto to be the second most successful city in the world was our "sktscraper construction"..

Let's keep 'em coming.

Number2.jpg
 

Hipster Duck

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^Well, that is a weird metric, but probably one that would appeal to a lot of people on this forum! Incidentally, that is actually one of the more transparent metrics of the ones they have up there. I won't dispute that Toronto has the most skyscrapers under construction of any city in the developed world, but it's hard to say that Toronto is at the top of the game for 'sports and leisure', and what the hell is a "business trip index"?
 

maestro

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P.S. I'm not opposed to the height myself but, I still think it will be a contentious subject given past proposals in the area. L Tower does make a difference though. Regardless, I do hope the city the city rejects this development as any re-development scheme should at least include an equal amount of commerical space.
 

Big Daddy

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In the back of my mind I am wondering if developers are taking advantage of Torontonian’s inexperience when it comes to investing in condos. I just don't understand the rate at which these mega towers are popping up. The math stops working at some point and you have to wonder if these developers are just putting the screws to some inexperienced investors. Are there really that many people moving into Toronto all of a sudden? When does it slow down? What is the ratio of investor vs. owner resident? Is there a tipping point we should be aware of?
 

Architecturefan

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Architect is Page and Steele (IBI Group). The 58 storeys includes the 5 storey base, which incorporates the existing art deco building.
 

greenleaf

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Architect is Page and Steele (IBI Group). The 58 storeys includes the 5 storey base, which incorporates the existing art deco building.

I'm glad the plan includes the art deco building at the base. That one's a beauty. I'm concerned that we will lose commercial office space though. That seems pretty important for such a central site.

For what it's worth, the downtown tall building study recommends 15-25s for this site.
 

taal

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P.S. I'm not opposed to the height myself but, I still think it will be a contentious subject given past proposals in the area. L Tower does make a difference though. Regardless, I do hope the city the city rejects this development as any re-development scheme should at least include an equal amount of commerical space.

Can you elaborate on where in the south core are they moving to ?

The building already under construction ? (i.e. Price Waterhouse ...) or the one beside the delta ?

Any idea how much office space is contained in this building, it looks like quite a bit.

...

Actually I found an answer:
10 Wellington Street East, Toronto, Ontario
154,092 sq. ft.
Total Available Area 0 sq. ft.

Not as big as I thought, seemed deceptively large. Are they downsizing or expanding in the southcore ? If you're aware.

...

Okay answered my own question again :)

From a Q4 2010 office market report:
Royal & Sun Alliance completed a 108,800-sf transaction at 18 York
Street. George Brown College completed a 91,000-sf transaction at
333 King Street East.

Wow only about 7% vacancy in the yet to be completed 18 York street ... these new buildings are in hot demand (new being the optimal word here).
 
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dt_toronto_geek

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Now this is an area, in my opinion, where the sky should be the limit for height. There's no homes, schools or parks nearby to cast any of those dreaded shadows nor any view corridors to ruin, why stop at 58 here? I'd also rather see this as office use but condos are where the demand seems to be right now.
 

taal

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Now this is an area, in my opinion, where the sky should be the limit for height. There's no homes, schools or parks nearby to cast any of those dreaded shadows nor any view corridors to ruin, why stop at 58 here? I'd also rather see this as office use but condos are where the demand seems to be right now.

I wouldn't mind both, Toronto will never really have a shortage of office space for a long time to come. If somehow the demand jumps there's still so much redevelopment potential (i.e. existing plots of land). The south core also has at least 2 or 3 sites for fairly large buildings. Also there is just empty land sitting on the east side (i.e. around Church) in the form of parking lots.

I kind of like this building though (i.e. what's there now).
 

Hipster Duck

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In an ideal world, yes, this would be a commercial building. However, in Toronto, the majority of the commercial towers that have been built since 1995 have been blue glass, flat-topped boxes with big fat floorplates. I'd rather have a skinny condo tower with setbacks.
 

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