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Bjays92

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So can we stop the insufferable comparisons to NYC already? It's so strange, New Yorkers do not care about these comparisons and frankly, most Torontonians don't either. It's some weird obsession I only ever see online.
It's simply because most people here seem to believe Toronto get only shitty proposals. Maybe that was the case 10 years ago, but people need something to complain about. So even as H&R REIT proposed 2 very nice towers today, that most any city in the world would love to have, people still found a way to complain.

Back to on topic. I'd like to see some updated renders of this site with the two tower design.
 

The REAL

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While Toronto is definitely not at New York levels yet, as others have mentioned New York has plenty of mediocre projects as well. When it's not your city, the only projects you really gravitate towards or see are the major ones and the really well done ones.

Because we are in Ontario and follow this forum we are exposed to nearly all the ongoing projects in toronto. Most of us would have nowhere near that scope on New York projects. We see their super slims, Hudson's yard and maybe the other odd building and go, look at all the fantastic architecture and building designs going up in new york!

Likewise someone from New York who follows construction and buildings probably has no idea about this, or Concord house, or yv11 or really any other building in the mid 200m range.

They see the One, M+G, CIBC Square, maybe they see pinnacle one yonge, and union park. And likewise they go wow, look at all the quality projects Toronto is building I wish New York would have every building built to that standard.

It's all a matter of perspective and where you live and what you pay attention to
True, but to be fair.. Hudson yards alone would crush every building built or being built on the wwaterfront. And 'm not talking about the 1 Yonge complex as that project could prove very interesting if built correctly.
 

ADRM

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True, but to be fair.. Hudson yards alone would crush every building built or being built on the wwaterfront. And 'm not talking about the 1 Yonge complex as that project could prove very interesting if built correctly.

There is precisely 0% of Hudson Yards that I would want imported onto Toronto's waterfront.
 

Mercenary

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There is precisely 100% of Hudson Yards that I would want imported onto Toronto's waterfront.

Imagine the East Harbor Area having the Hudson Yards or even the Moscow International Business Center type skyscrapers. It would look amazing.
 

ADRM

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There is precisely 100% of Hudson Yards that I would want imported onto Toronto's waterfront.

Imagine the East Harbor Area having the Hudson Yards or even the Moscow International Business Center type skyscrapers. It would look amazing.

I don't mean to be curt, but people who say things like this have typically either never actually seen any of those projects in-person, or just have a horrible idea of what makes cities great.
 

alklay

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Not to divert the thread too much, but Hudson Yards is considered a bit of a failure at urban design. Hopefully it will serve as an example of what not to do, for planners both here and elsewhere. (this is the problem with those on the board who clap with glee at a shiny new tall building. There is little thought in how the building contributes to a vibrant city at ground level.).

For those interested, here are two decent opinion pieces:



 

ProjectEnd

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There is precisely 100% of Hudson Yards that I would want imported onto Toronto's waterfront.

Imagine the East Harbor Area having the Hudson Yards or even the Moscow International Business Center type skyscrapers. It would look amazing.
Alexandra Lange's piece about HY was one of the strongest. Well worth the read if this is the sort of thing you think we should be importing here: https://ny.curbed.com/2019/3/15/18256293/hudson-yards-nyc-buildings-vessel-architecture
 

GenerationLee

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Frankly I find the Hudsons Yard project ugly and a little too...wacky? I guess. It's fine for New York...I know I'm of a tiny minority to say this but the vessel thing looks like it belongs in a junkyard.
Anyways, I'd certainly wish this project would retain whats currently there...especially the corner building.
 

MoObserves

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It takes one visit to Hudson Yards to quickly realize that the even the Path in Downtown Toronto has more street life, and character than that complex.
None of it is well connected to street level and pedestrian energy. It's literally a mall on the 4th floor of a building that gets some energy during the lunch hour.

I don't think the aim should be replicating NY by any means, it's dense, dirty and expensive. Case and point isn Dundas Square.

Toronto should aim to be Toronto; the problem is we keep building it up by trying to replicate other cities, (NY, London, Dubai, HK...etc), it's not. It's a fast growing city, that has the opportunity to learn from other cities' mistakes to make it architecturally interesting, green, and livable city. Spandrel clad condo towers, with Rexall/Shoppers and dental practices at ground level don't make a city, so the more we can support ground level SMEs, the more our urban fabric will benefit, regardless what the structures above it are.
 

Undead

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Forget architecture. Toronto's single biggest problem is affordability because of the bubble. When a midtown shoebox is approaching Manhattan PSF, ya dun goofed.

I understand the concern about having attractive and well designed buildings, but frankly it strikes me as quaint given the extremely pressing affordability problem.
 

Bjays92

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It takes one visit to Hudson Yards to quickly realize that the even the Path in Downtown Toronto has more street life, and character than that complex.
None of it is well connected to street level and pedestrian energy. It's literally a mall on the 4th floor of a building that gets some energy during the lunch hour.

I don't think the aim should be replicating NY by any means, it's dense, dirty and expensive. Case and point isn Dundas Square.

Toronto should aim to be Toronto; the problem is we keep building it up by trying to replicate other cities, (NY, London, Dubai, HK...etc), it's not. It's a fast growing city, that has the opportunity to learn from other cities' mistakes to make it architecturally interesting, green, and livable city. Spandrel clad condo towers, with Rexall/Shoppers and dental practices at ground level don't make a city, so the more we can support ground level SMEs, the more our urban fabric will benefit, regardless what the structures above it are.
This is the correct approach. Toronto is growing much later than the cities we always compare it to. We have a chance to do it right, doesnt mean we always will. But that should be the focus not emulating someone else.

And there are many good projects in the works. Like the new master planned community in HBS is fantastic for example. It's how urban planning should be done, well thought out, consistently refined, diversity in buildings architecture, interesting and inviting community spaces etc.

I'd take that development over Hudson yards any day. Just because something looks great doesnt mean it functions great. Ideally wed have both, but Daniel's waterfront towers are a great example of absolutely shit architecture with a very nice public realm on the waterfront. Yonge and rich is the opposite.
 

Mercenary

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I don't mean to be curt, but people who say things like this have typically either never actually seen any of those projects in-person, or just have a horrible idea of what makes cities great.
I have lived half my life in other counties and visited over 50 countries. I know what makes good cities and architecture. And by the way, you are being Curt.
 

67Cup

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I can’t claim to know “what makes good cities and architecture.“ I’m still working it out. That isn’t an indirect slam against Mercenary, just a statement about myself. It’s not that I have no experience of urban life, having lived in cities famed for their beauty and on the other end of things, a coal mining town in West Virginia. I have certain gut reactions, some of which are probably justifiable. (I am pretty sure the absence of a fine layer of coal dust is a positive!) But I would like to hear some of our better informed and more knowledgeable posters explain what good urban development means to them. I don’t want my gut to be the sole arbiter of my opinions.

Mods: I know this is wandering from the subject of this thread, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Would it be possible to offer some of those experienced and knowledgeable posters the opportunity to write a long post/short essay on this subject? It seems to me that this is the subtext of exchanges in many threads on the board and we would all be the better for an airing of ideas on the subject in one accessible place. Thank you for considering this. (And if such a thread already exists, please point me there.)
 
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ProjectEnd

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I have lived half my life in other counties and visited over 50 countries. I know what makes good cities and architecture. And by the way, you are being Curt.
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UtakataNoAnnex

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I have lived half my life in other counties and visited over 50 countries. I know what makes good cities and architecture. And by the way, you are being Curt.
Yeah, but...what you expereinced in 50 countries in the anecdotal, is not what other's have experienced in 50 countries more or less. It's a terrible way to judge architecture or cities, none of the less.
 

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