400 Front Street | 199m | 59s | State Building Group | Kirkor Architects

AHK

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Any updates on this project? When do we expect they might break ground?
1. After having received its LPAT approval, and the developers now know what they can build, and having the ground sampling done (as per the post earlier on this page) they are presumably now in the planning, detailed design, engineering, costing, revision iterations stage, that leads up to submission for permits and preparation of construction drawings and so on. During which people with no idea of how much work that entails, how long it takes for all this background work to take place, often ask for updates, why are they not talking about the project, is it being abandoned, etc.

2. Presumably after the equipment for the ground breaking arrives on site.
 

GauchoAmigo

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1. After having received its LPAT approval, and the developers now know what they can build, and having the ground sampling done (as per the post earlier on this page) they are presumably now in the planning, detailed design, engineering, costing, revision iterations stage, that leads up to submission for permits and preparation of construction drawings and so on. During which people with no idea of how much work that entails, how long it takes for all this background work to take place, often ask for updates, why are they not talking about the project, is it being abandoned, etc.

2. Presumably after the equipment for the ground breaking arrives on site.
Thanks for the insight, didn't want to come across naively - just genuinely curious and not terribly well-versed in this sort of thing!
 

AHK

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Thanks for the insight, didn't want to come across naively - just genuinely curious and not terribly well-versed in this sort of thing!
My apologies for sounding a bit snarky in my response - it is just that unfortunately there are an inordinate number of individuals who meaninglessly resurrect threads looking for updates, or prophesying doom and gloom for a project just because there has been no recent news.

The amount of work to bring a large project to the point of ground breaking - from receipt of zoning approval - whether by Zoning Bylaw Amendment (ZBA), or by verdict on an LPAT appeal - is incredible. The reason I mention the ZBA or LAPT verdict stages, is due to the long obsolete zoning framework currently in place, nothing material is being built on an as of right basis in any of the in demand areas of the City these days.

So from the point in time when the developer actually knows what they can do (up to that point they will have just preliminary design plans that were submitted for the planning approvals) then they really have to get to work , behind the scenes, with the multiple iterations of architectural design, electrical, mechanical, structural engineering design, costing, iterative design reviews and changes to bring the costs down to a budget the developer can live with, and then development of the detailed construction, tender, and permit submission sets of drawings and specifications. The time frame for this process in a large project can often be measured, not in days, weeks or months, but a year or more.

If the building being developed is condominium, or a commercial office building with space to be marketed, the developer may start a marketing campaign while development of the plans are underway - especially if there are condominium pre-sales or office pre-leasing requirements which must be met in order to obtain financing, and / or make the business decision to proceed with the development. If the building is a commercial office tower with a large pre-leasing commitment already in place, or a purpose built residential rental development - the developer does not need to spend a lot of time or money in publicizing or marketing the building at this stage.

And all this is before construction, which can be a three to four year process for larger projects, actually starts. Work on The Well site started the first week of January 2017 - three and a half years ago - and still a long way to go.

That having been said, there are many sites in Toronto where zoning is in place for redevelopment, however market conditions are not ready, or the developer is choosing to wait, in anticipation of better returns on the development in the future. From my understanding - the City has approved residential developments totaling hundreds of thousands of units, for which the developers have not yet proceeded. Similarly with office space - there are projects with zoning approvals in place which have been sitting for years, waiting for the right time to proceed. A perfect example is the Allied proposal for 388 King Street West with zoning in place for an 800,000 square foot office tower, approval obtained about eight years ago - but the area is just not yet ready for a commercial office development of that size.

The whole point is, that development of a major project is a complex and lengthy process, and that it is not unusual for not much publicly visible activity to be taking place for extended periods of time. When anyone here becomes aware of any news on a project, it is usually posted within minutes of becoming available.

So it is generally considered to be not good form, and to be inconsiderate of other Urban Toronto members, to resurrect dormant threads just to ask if anyone has any updates, or when a specific milestone is expected, given if that information were available, it would have already been posted and widely disseminated.
 
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isaidso

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This is an abysmal stretch of Front. This lot desperately needs an attractive building as there's not one for blocks.
 

ptbotrmpfn

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I hope they don’t do buildings like these and others in the area again. but I know that won’t happen. Looking at this area now the buildings all just blend together. It’s not attractive from many parts of the city. Unless upclose to see them. They all. Look like one giant building From distances
 

Koops65

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From a distance, these will literally stand out from the rest of the Entertainment District, being ~40 metres taller.
 

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