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325 Bogert Avenue | 87m | 27s | Greatwise | Core Architects

PMT

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I remember viewing an apartment here with my family back in 2002, and we were told by the landlord back then that the owner was planning to redevelop the property. Fifteen years later...

325 BOGERT AVE
Ward 23 - North York District

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Redevelopment of site with 6 new residential towers (21-27 storeys), 8-10 storey podiums with street related commercial on Sheppard Avenue West, extension of Bogert Avenue and a public park. Proposed demolition of seven of ten existing rental blocks and 8 detached dwellings. Proposed retention of 148 rentail units and 269 rental replacement units. A 3-storey addition is proposed above the retained rental building. Two 20 unit stacked townhouse buildings are proposed on the two blocks that are currently detached dwellings. 1,840 parking spaces are proposed, with 80 surface and 1,760 below grade.


Proposed Use --- # of Storeys --- # of Units ---

Applications:

Type Number Date Submitted Status
OPA & Rezoning 16 272001 NNY 23 OZ Dec 30, 2016 Under Review

Screenshot 2017-01-03 10.23.44.png
 

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sunnyraytoronto

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I remember viewing an apartment here with my family back in 2002, and we were told by the landlord back then that the owner was planning to redevelop the property. Fifteen years later...

325 BOGERT AVE
Ward 23 - North York District

View attachment 95002
Actually, they did submit a development application back then in late 1990's,.... which got approval to proceed about 15 years ago. But the owner/developer never proceeded any further with the approved development,..... it could be the case where owner was just "up-zoning" with the intention of selling the land to big developer at higher price. Thus, it'll be interesting to see whether this new development application is being submitted by the same owner or a new owner/developer.

Anyways,.... might be more challenging to build too high if there's sinkholes issues on this site. About 7 years ago, this news article list the owner as 567485 Ontario Limited with Samuel Grosz listed as a director and president of the company.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/05/06/family_forced_to_evacuate_home.html


Anyways, that approved development application from about 15 years ago was interesting in that the Section37 CommunityBenefit included a small pedestrian/trail bridge near the south end of the site over the WestDonValley River (which is visible in the above photo) which will connect residents of the east side of the river with EarlBales Park on the west side of the river. Does anyone see any issues with that Section37 CommunityBenefit ??? If you do, then you're smarter than CityPlanning folks!
 
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sunnyraytoronto

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Anyways, since the current site is all rental units (about 416 units) that old development approval from about 15 years ago contains many conditions to protect the rental tenants with same rent for new rental units in the new development for 20 years. Renter protections during redevelopment have improved over the years; as seen with renter protection for rental units at site of G-Group Centrium/EllieCondo developments and Yonge-Sheppard Centre rental (townhouse units) - which eventually just converted their condo tower to all rental! Anyways, if you're an apartment renter in the area and don't mind putting in some time living in a bed-bug, coakroach & drug infested scummy apartment building - this will likely be a good deal for at least 20 years after new units are completed,... this is on the assumption that the similar or better renter protection will apply to this new development application.
 
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innsertnamehere

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^it is required for all rental buildings that are demolished that contain 6 or more units. You see it more and more where developers are demolishing 100+ unit rental buildings and have to provide those units in the new construction.

Tenants have to find their own accommodation during construction but are given first right to return.
 

innsertnamehere

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yea, I'd imagine. People may be reluctant to return as it is often a 4-5 year gap between eviction and completion of the new units - this is a lot of time for changes in people's lives, and they may well prefer wherever then ended up for that time period.
 

sunnyraytoronto

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Provisions for renters of previous development applications from 15 years ago included:
- below market rent for 20 years (increase limited to rent control guidelines)
- rent "top-up" of $250/month during construction (this rate was for 15 years ago!) for tenants returning
- cash payment equivalent to 6-month rent for tenants not returning

This seems to be more generous than the standard requirement and likely resulted from the tenants getting organized and forming the Bogert Tenant Association Inc.; obviously beneficial for them last time, so expect them to fight for more rights again.
 
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pipolchap

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Obviously an ask-for-the-moon proposal! As a community benefit, put in a Sheppard subway extension and a Senlac station and I'm OK with this. haha
 

interchange42

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Yeah, if they offer to extend the Sheppard subway from Yonge to the Allen on their dime, I'd offer them a few extra floors! (I've been corrupted by the backwards Section 37 negotiation model.)

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innsertnamehere

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Honestly a Senlac station may be relatively affordable, I believe the tunnels already run to Welbeck. It would probably just be a matter of building the station itself. Probably in the multi hundred million range still, but more affordable than most subway projects.
 

sunnyraytoronto

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Section37 CommunityBenefit is based on a formula dependent on changes in zoning, height, density, etc,... and the Councillor's negotiating skills; getting 5-10% of the project's total value for Section37 CommunityBenefits would be considered very impressive. Case in point, last time I spoke with Councillor Filion, he was absolutely laughing when he mentioned how he had RioCan's $200 million YongeShepppardCentre proposal over a barrel and managed to converted their initial $4 million of Section37 CommunityBenefits into $20 million worth of Section37 CommunityBenefits. That 10% Section37 CommunityBenefit rate is probably Councillor Filion's highest Section37 CommunityBenefit rate of any project in Ward23 NorthYorkCentre, which has by far seen the most high-density development in Toronto during his 25 years in office. The highest Section37 CommunityBenefit rates I've ever heard from CityPlanners is 15%,.... and that's for small mid-rise projects in mid-town where old WASP NIMBY-er fight like rabid dogs.

Built as proposed, this 325 Bogert project proposal is an approximately $750 million project. A very impressive 5-10% rate in Section37 CommunityBenefit would only generate $37.5 million to $75 million in Section37 CommunityBenefits. Mainly due to the technical challenges of crossing the WestDonValley, a westward extension of the Sheppard STUBway line from Yonge (actually Senlac tailtrack) to the current Downsview Station at Allen Road is now estimated to cost $2.3 BILLION (that's $2,300 million) of which the $37.5 million to $75 million in Section37 CommunityBenefits would only account for 1.6%-3.3%,... hardly a drop in the bucket. That is, if all of it were to go to only one project,.... which would be at a great opportunity cost to other local community projects.

In addition, Section37 CommunityBenefit can only fund local infrastructure and projects (park infrastructure, public realm space, non-profit child-care, community centre, library, etc,...) in the ward where the development project occurs (anyone figure out what's wrong with the previous Section 37 CommunityBenefit funded pedestrian-trail bridge proposal over the DonRiver West). Section37 CommunityBenefit funds are designed to benefit the locals most affected by the development project,... to help offset their negative consequences from the development project. Section37 CommunityBenefit project can not specifically fund TTC infrastructure.

The only possible way of getting any funding from this project directed at TTC infrastructure is via the approximately $25,000 development fee per unit. Since this project is adding 1,617 new units that work out to $40,425,000 in total development fees but that amount goes primarily to fund the required road infrastructure improvement (they're talking about westward extension of Bogert Ave to meet Sheppard Ave West which will also be widen), water & sewage infrastructure improvement, local school infrastructure, etc,.... that $40,425,000 in total development fees is disappearing pretty fast now,.....


At an estimated cost of $2.3 Billion for 3.4km westward extension of Sheppard STUBway line to Downsview Station ($675+ million / km) mainly for one additional station at Bathurst - note, they're not even talking about a mid-block station at Senlac!,... any such discussion is really just a waste of time,... about wasting money that doesn't even exist! Especially since Metrolink is about to start construction of the fully funded $1.2 Billion 11km FinchWest LRT from Keele to HumberCollege ($110 million / km) which is the prelude to a short 6km LRT link along Finch from Keele To Yonge that'll finally close the northern rapid transit gap between the Yonge Subway line and Spadina Subway line in North York; the FinchWest LRT link to Yonge can't be done now due to capacity issues on Yonge subway line,... Metrolinx is currently estimating about 20 years from now after a whole bunch of other new north-south LRT or subway lines gets built first to relieve capacity pressure on Yonge subway line,...

The City, TTC and Metrolinx are trying to figure out how to get the most bang out of every transit dollar,... a $2.3 Billion westward extension of Sheppard STUBway line definitely is not it nor is a "multi hundred million" dollar Senlac subway station.
 
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sunnyraytoronto

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PMT, that's the initial site plan map with 24, 21, 20, 33, 29 and 21 storey,.... they already got chopped down to 21, 21, 21, 21, 25 and 27 storey prior to their formal development application submission. Here's the more upto date current site plan:

IMG_3692.JPG

IMG_3757.JPG


IMG_3720.JPG




Toronto is a city of valleys - the City and Toronto Regional Conservation Authority has rules governing development near the valley, especially with respect to how close development can be to valley ridge and transition relative to the slope of the valley at tree top,.... This image shows their disrespect for the West DonValley,.... notice how the 2 west towers ignore the transition from valley slope (at tree top). They're supposed to do an angular plane line based on slope of valley - which would have cut off at least half the two western towers beside the valley ridge.

IMG_3743.JPG



IMG_3741.JPG



While this project is a considerable increase from their current 416 units on this site to 1700+ units,... the "apartment land" zoning for the land and previous 15+ year old OMB ruling allows for at least 1100+ units - the exact number is still debateable and murky due to interpretations over the years.

Anyways,.... at 1,765 units (1,617 new units + 148 retained old units) this is one of the largest multi-tower proposal in North York by a single developer (likely only eclipse by Concord-Alex ParkPlace); this is basically a cookie-cutter copy of SilverCore's NewtonBrook Plaza redevelopment that's now triggering the YongeStreetNorthSecondaryPlan 30 years before the city will ever be able to build the Yonge subway extension north of Finch. This is also the most ghetto development proposal I've seen,.... the site currently has 10 short apartment structure from the 1960's that looks like government housing (as seen below),.... they'll demolish 7 of them and keep 3 of these ghetto structures (housing the 148 retained units) and add 3 storey additions on top! Seriously, are these old apartment buildings worth keeping,... and building new structures on top???? Just demolish them already!

Ghetto1.jpg

Ghetto.jpg
 

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