AlexBozikovic
Active Member
I was told the existing office buildings are "fortress-like." Here's the before and after.
Toronto 2180 Yonge | 247m | 65s | Oxford Properties | Hariri Pontarini
- Thread starter maestro
- Start date
syn
Senior Member
Agreed. I like it better than what's being proposed.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
.Not long before all that junk goes hi-rise
cd concept
Senior Member
Could they have more of a visionary outlook on the future. Waiting out on when council will be less lenient on density and height. After having other builders develope first around them. Then go for the kill on more height and density. This project seams to be like that from the original proposal being much smaller than whats proposed now. And look the Richmond Adelaide project has doubled in size . Just split up into three buildings from the original 57 storeys .
allengeorge
Senior Member
Did HPA/anyone ever explain why they went with the cul-de-sac? Looking at the plans, I assume it’s because they wanted an uninterrupted park along Yonge, and then wanted to squeeze as many buildings into the South part of the site as possible.
I do agree with some of Alex’s points (get rid of the superblock, remove the damn cul-de-sac, rethink the ‘park’, reorient the buildings), but not so much on keeping the existing office buildings. Their on-street presence is...pretty dismal...and I’m not sure that’s fixable. Definitely agree with above posters that if we are going to demolish them we should be adding more office space in the process.
I do agree with some of Alex’s points (get rid of the superblock, remove the damn cul-de-sac, rethink the ‘park’, reorient the buildings), but not so much on keeping the existing office buildings. Their on-street presence is...pretty dismal...and I’m not sure that’s fixable. Definitely agree with above posters that if we are going to demolish them we should be adding more office space in the process.
allengeorge
Senior Member
The current office building is handsome and well-executed, but...the way it hits Yonge? That frontage is dead. I can understand why it’s described as ‘fortress-like’.
I’m really curious if we’ll see the street trees depicted in the after render. Is there actually enough space for them?
flonicky
Active Member
Instead of a big blob of a park, it would make more sense having a strip running from Berwick and Yonge up to Duplex and Eglinton. That would provide some pedestrian benefit and break up the superblock. Then have an east-west strip. The current plan doesn't deliver any practical benefit if you're walking through the area.
allengeorge
Senior Member
It does weirdly feel like a park built for the homes at Duplex Crescent. They wouldn't have any towers in front of them.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Yeah too bad, we always end up not getting anything from a design competition and get some watered down version
Mercenary
Active Member
wow, these renders look amazing.
cd concept
Senior Member
Yeah! Why is that! I see it happen on 99% of the development proposals. What's the purpose of teasing the public on something that will rarely become the finish product . This is the case with Mirvish Gehry's supertall on King St.Yeah too bad, we always end up not getting anything from a design competition and get some watered down version
Last edited by a moderator:
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Yeah one i also remember very clearly was the Canada House design competition, look what we ended up getting
smably
Senior Member
Remember the Waterfront Innovation Centre design competition?
It's been a while since we last got to see design competition entries. I think the last one was for the Cumberland Terrace and adjacent properties redevelopment which Allies and Morrison of London won (now masterplanning 2150 Lake Shore West, and hopefully getting to design at least one of the actual buildings there) but which fell apart because Holt Renfrew refused to play ball. There are other entries in that thread too, aren't there? I don't have time to look them up now, but I think there were leaks at the time. The Waterfront Innovation Centre competition was another famous one here, when Diamond Schmitt revealed their non-winning design with its cone-like oculus through which Dockside Drive passed, and over which a lot of people expressed disappointment that DSAI hadn't won. Menkes was more than disappointed that the DSAI version had been revealed, as they suddenly were faced with questions over 'why not' Diamond Schmitt? In the end, the winning Sweeny &Co design was taken to task by the DRP for being too derivative of Snøhetta's Ryerson Student Learning Centre, and that was taken as license to simplify the winning design beyond all recognition.
This is probably the most famous of the recent design competitions in Toronto, with IIRC all of the competitors having revealed their entires as Concord at the time simply hadn't contracted them not to. Concord wasn't happy, despite that, because again, they had to deal with questions about why this one over that one… but the real stinger there was that in the end, the winners (aA) were told that the design was used to choose a winning team, not a winning design: the design wouldn't be used. aA were not happy and dropped out.
To go back to @cd concept's comment, this is not the case with Mirvish+Gehry. That wasn't a competition, that was, I think, a pretty earnest attempt by David Mirvish to leave an architectural and artistic legacy here. He had only been a developer once before, at 1 King West, which he had rescued when the original developer Harry Stinson got in over his head. I'm glad we have that building, but the experience Mirvish gained with it, it seems, gave him enough of a taste to want to do more, but was not enough, it turned out, to prepare him for such as grandiose original design for his project with friend Gehry: for more than one reason, it simply wasn't going to be buildable by Mirvish, nor, it turns out by more experienced players Great Gulf, Dream, and Westdale. They've all wanted something signaturely (not a word, I know) Gehry, but you have to be able to pay for it, and you can only pay enough for all the bells and whistles if others are willing to buy more expensive than normal suites in the buildings. Right now the feeling is that the money is not there for the more elaborate design, as simple as that, it has nothing to do with bait and switch in that case, just economic realities. In the meantime, it's still Gehry designing, it's still far beyond the Toronto average development, and nothing has been sold in it yet, so no bait, no switch.
Back to this site: I imagine that Oxford won't be that happy that Janet Rosenberg's firm has posted the KPMB competition entry that they were connected to. Maybe JR+Studio weren't contractually obligated to keep it secret, or maybe it's been put up by mistake. It's certainly an intriguing vision. The triangular frame of the proposed Canadian Tire HQs is quite cool and reminds me of Expo 67 architecture. It'll never be built, however. Ah well…
42
smably
Senior Member
Either way, it's already been taken down, so I think it's safe to say that Oxford isn't happy about it.