Toronto 2150 Lake Shore | 215.75m | 67s | First Capital | Allies and Morrison

[Deadpool X]

The lack of discussion about bringing the subway here is what is wrong with Toronto transit planning. These kinds of densities don't exist anywhere in North America without access to a rapid transit system. Go/Metrolinx is Regional Rail, not Local Rapid Transit. But go ahead and built that Subway to Scarborough, where the densities will be 1/4 of what we have here.

Scarborough line is serving 700,000 residents. Will we even have one-tenth of that number in HBS ever? There is already a subway line 3 km away and LRT and GO right there. You can't expect parallel subway lines every few km just to satisfy a residential block of a few hectares in size.

Maybe you are not aware that majority of the subway riders in Scarborough, or North York and Etobicoke from that matter, don't live within walking distance from the subway. Majority of those arrive via buses. If you knew, you probably wouldn't be talking about density.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link (dated 2018).

The current Mimico GO Station has an average daily of 1.4K. If 2150 Lake Shore can add 5K, in addition to neighbouring buildings, in addition to transfers from the TTC (more if we can return to discount fares between TTC and GO), and adding employment centres in the area, the Park Lawn GO Station and neighbourhood could become a busy area.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.

At least the old water tower will remain. Wonder if it'll still work?

 

[UrbanDan]

Personally, I'm more curious to see if they work out good connections to the Bloor Line

I believe that connecting HBS (and the future GO station) to Jane station via S. Kingsway would solve a lot of transit problems in the area. Not only for HBS, but also for South Swansea which will add more density in the next couple of years.

At first, I would like to see frequent bus service. However, the best option, I believe, is to build (now forgotten) Jane LRT which would extend to Park Lawn GO station via S. Kingsway. This way there would be more users of the new GO station and HBS would be connected with Bloor West Village, Bloor Subway, Crosstown LRT, and so on.

 

[Bjays92]

However, the best option, I believe, is to build (now forgotten) Jane LRT which would extend to Park Lawn GO station via S. Kingsway. This way there would be more users of the new GO station and HBS would be connected with Bloor West Village, Bloor Subway, Crosstown LRT, and so on.

The city could even make a much smaller investment, and just have a direct lrt connection with one or two stops running just between HBS and a station on the bloor line.

I lived in Hong Kong for many years and outside of the downtown they often had one stop Subway lines that were offshoots of main lines, or a couple stop LRT lines that would run from main lines into more dense villages that were a little more out of the way like HBS.

This worked excellently and I feel like it could be a good option for a spot like this. And it saves building a whole new subway or LRT line.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It'll depend upon who writes those standards. Will they be written by those who never rode a bicycles all their life, or will they be written by actual bicycle commuters? Would rather have someone who lived in Amsterdam than by someone who lived in Phoenix to write the standards.

The city could even make a much smaller investment, and just have a direct lrt connection with one or two stops running just between HBS and a station on the bloor line.

I lived in Hong Kong for many years and outside of the downtown they often had one stop Subway lines that were offshoots of main lines, or a couple stop LRT lines that would run from main lines into more dense villages that were a little more out of the way like HBS.

This worked excellently and I feel like it could be a good option for a spot like this. And it saves building a whole new subway or LRT line.

With trains running OVER the Humber River Sewage Treatment Plant, of course.

From link.

 

[UrbanDan]

The city could even make a much smaller investment, and just have a direct lrt connection with one or two stops running just between HBS and a station on the bloor line.

I completely agree that a 3 stop lrt to Jane station via S. Kingsway would be the best solution for both HBS and South Swansea. Also this would bring many new riders to the new GO station. If there is a business case to go north to Crosstown lrt, or even more up north, even better.

However, a new bus route would be a good start for now.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I completely agree that a 3 stop lrt to Jane station via S. Kingsway would be the best solution for both HBS and South Swansea. Also this would bring many new riders to the new GO station. If there is a business case to go north to Crosstown lrt, or even more up north, even better.

However, a new bus route would be a good start for now.

Or a re-routed 138 SOUTH KINGSWAY that'll loop at the PARK LAWN GO STATION. If they can get a bus through the underpass under the Gardiner at the Humber Loop somehow, else they'll have use Windermere Avenue and Lake Shore Blvd. W. instead to get to the GO Station.

From link.

 

[toaster29]

Scarborough line is serving 700,000 residents. Will we even have one-tenth of that number in HBS ever? There is already a subway line 3 km away and LRT and GO right there. You can't expect parallel subway lines every few km just to satisfy a residential block of a few hectares in size.

Maybe you are not aware that majority of the subway riders in Scarborough, or North York and Etobicoke from that matter, don't live within walking distance from the subway. Majority of those arrive via buses. If you knew, you probably wouldn't be talking about density.

Your statement is too general. In Scarborough, you are probably right. In Etobicoke, a lot of the ridership comes from Park and Rides at Islington and Kipling. I don't have the ridership breakdown, maybe you could share that since you are making the assertion. In North York, along Yonge, much of the ridership comes from people living within walking distance - NYCC, Yonge/Eg, Shep/Yonge - urban nodes like the one here at Park Lawn/Lakeshore. Density is an important factor in determining rapid transit planning, this is well documented - not my opinion. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it should be the most important factor.

It makes more sense to build a subway line to where people are situated altogether in one node, than to build a station that then requires sending out 15+ bus routes to reach the same number of people.

 

[kali]

^yes that's true but it's also true in Toronto that subways in low density areas have high ridership because of the heavily used bus routes. iirc in the latest CEO report, the TTC said as much, hailing the bus network as the unsung hero.

 

[DrillBit]

32 buildings on this site

Humber Bay Park is already clogged up as it is right now, and all the residents from the newest builds still havent even moved in. By the time First Capital completes their Master Plan, this area is going to be severely park deficient.

The city better be prepping an order for more fill for the lake.

And why not ?
Dump all dirt from building pits into lake. Reduce emissions from trucks and make new park.

 

[Amare]

And why not ?
Dump all dirt from building pits into lake. Reduce emissions from trucks and make new park.

That's actually exactly what i'm encouraging. Unfortunately the city rarely, if ever, has forward thought process these days. It wont occur to them until 2050 that they should have looked into this.

To be clear, the city doesnt have to create a new park per se. They can expand what's already there.

 

[DrillBit]

The government only announced a few months ago that the Food Terminal is staying at that location; implicitly for at least another couple of decades anyway.

Fare integration and extension of Bloor subway will take more than couple of decades. Meanwhile, let Food Terminal stay.

 

[interchange42]

Just to remind everyone, Ontario declared the Food Terminal a Provincially Significant Employment Zone last year, so no fear, it is not going.

Meanwhile, additional lake fill for anything requires a ton of environmental study now, so adding to the headlands where the parks are is not as easy as it once was.

42

 

[ADRM]

Meanwhile, additional lake fill for anything requires a ton of environmental study now, so adding to the headlands where the parks are is not as easy as it once was.

And before even considering new fill, I'd certainly start by repurposing the nearly 2 acres of surface parking on the existing parkland in Humber Bay Park East.