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AlbertC

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ADRM

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The hydro infrastructure would not look out of place in post-invasion Baghdad.

I really don't understand either a) the hate for above-grade hydro infrastructure, or b) the assertion that this is somehow unique to Toronto, given that you also find it in cities that actually fund high calibre urban design (Tokyo and London, for two).
 

pman

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I really don't understand either a) the hate for above-grade hydro infrastructure, or b) the assertion that this is somehow unique to Toronto, given that you also find it in cities that actually fund high calibre urban design (Tokyo and London, for two).
I suppose the hate is that it creates a cluttered, ugly and shabby public realm. I can’t speak for TKO, but I’ve spent a lot of time in Zone 1 in London and I don’t recall seeing overhead wires there. I get that a lot of the world’s cities have overhead wires in some locations, but what strikes me about Toronto is that they’re almost everywhere, and often on high streets. I’m amazed that we will very occasionally rebuild streets down to the dirt and replace water, sewer and gas lines, but we’ll keep the overhead wires festooning the frontier-town wooden poles. So, yes I’d say the ugliness and absolutely overwhelming pervasiveness are unique to Toronto, at least relative to the major cities in Western Europe and Australia that I’m familiar with.
 

CityStay

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I suppose the hate is that it creates a cluttered, ugly and shabby public realm. I can’t speak for TKO, but I’ve spent a lot of time in Zone 1 in London and I don’t recall seeing overhead wires there. I get that a lot of the world’s cities have overhead wires in some locations, but what strikes me about Toronto is that they’re almost everywhere, and often on high streets. I’m amazed that we will very occasionally rebuild streets down to the dirt and replace water, sewer and gas lines, but we’ll keep the overhead wires festooning the frontier-town wooden poles. So, yes I’d say the ugliness and absolutely overwhelming pervasiveness are unique to Toronto, at least relative to the major cities in Western Europe and Australia that I’m familiar with.
Exactly! Many cities (mostly North American) have heritage hydro poles but they don't feature them in their central areas or on high streets, they relegate them to side streets or alleys.
Not in Toronto though, where apologists will defend ugliness to the bitter end.
 

Johnny Au

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Exactly! Many cities (mostly North American) have heritage hydro poles but they don't feature them in their central areas or on high streets, they relegate them to side streets or alleys.
Not in Toronto though, where apologists will defend ugliness to the bitter end.
Don't forget that Orthodox Jews sometimes use wires that connect hydro poles to mark eruvin (singular: eruv) for the purpose of Sabbath observation:

 

CityStay

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I really don't understand either a) the hate for above-grade hydro infrastructure, or b) the assertion that this is somehow unique to Toronto, given that you also find it in cities that actually fund high calibre urban design (Tokyo and London, for two).
I guess this attitude is part of what led to my departure from Toronto.
It's not the aspirational "We should try to beat the best!
No, the Toronto attitude is "We've picked the 10 worst aspects of what great world cities do and we also do the 10 worst things therefore.. we must be a great world city because we do all the worst things that an amalgam of the worst things that great world cities do"
Making excuses for meeting the minimum.
Weird mentality.
 
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smably

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Visit literally any city-focused forum and every thread will have someone complaining that their city is uniquely bad / a joke / undeserving of its reputation. Which is not to say that we shouldn't aim for better urban design, but this is not a Toronto-specific thing. And if you truly care about design, you're not going to fix it by complaining on a forum.

For me, the weird mentality is going on a forum about Toronto and only posting about how much you hate the place and how glad you are to have left. But everyone's got a weird hobby, so who am I to judge.
 

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