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1233 Queen East | ?m | 8s

TO City of Light

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Am I the only one who finds the forward/backward facing seats (contrasted to the side-facing bench seats) to be an anachronism dating back to railway days? Most of the major subway/MRT systems now seem to be opting for side-facing bench seats.

By having no more than three adjacent spaces, passengers are already choosing to stand when the seats are about 50 percent full. Seated passengers spread their bodies, legs and bags onto the adjoining space. Leg room is tight when facing a bench seat. Quite often one has to climb over a seated passenger to get to the window side of a forward/backward seat. Etc.

Of course, if one really wanted to maximize the capacity of cars, some of the new Singapore stock has the middle third of each car without any seating at all. It seems to work just fine.

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Platform 27

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IIRC, the TTC originally wanted to go with side-facing benches on both sides for the TR (the so-called "cattle car" configuration) but rider backlash prompted them to revert to a configuration more or less the same as the T1s.
 

TO City of Light

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IIRC, the TTC originally wanted to go with side-facing benches on both sides for the TR (the so-called "cattle car" configuration) but rider backlash prompted them to revert to a configuration more or less the same as the T1s.

Thanks, pretty well what I had assumed but good to get confirmation. As someone who has lived for most of my life in cattle car cities, I must admit I find it to be "normal". For passengers the preferred option is probably what one is used to.

Certainly when I am in Toronto I find the seats a bit of a throw-back but don't mind an almost guaranteed seat even when cars have lots of standees. It's just a matter of asking someone to take their shopping bags, briefcase, feet, etc. of the seat.


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wilson_wu

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Am I the only one who finds the forward/backward facing seats (contrasted to the side-facing bench seats) to be an anachronism dating back to railway days? Most of the major subway/MRT systems now seem to be opting for side-facing bench seats.

By having no more than three adjacent spaces, passengers are already choosing to stand when the seats are about 50 percent full. Seated passengers spread their bodies, legs and bags onto the adjoining space. Leg room is tight when facing a bench seat. Quite often one has to climb over a seated passenger to get to the window side of a forward/backward seat. Etc.

Of course, if one really wanted to maximize the capacity of cars, some of the new Singapore stock has the middle third of each car without any seating at all. It seems to work just fine.

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Seriously...who cares what other transit agencies do?

The TTC's mandate is to satisfy Torontonians, and Torontonians made it clear that we wanted to keep those seats.

I, personally, dislike wall seats. Being crammed with people on each side of my arm. Having to stare at someone across from me.

And wall seats actually take up more room because people like to strethc out their legs.
 

golodhendil

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^ then you just give them a friendly nudge or kick in the shin to put their legs back. /half-joking

Transverse seating is actually quite common in North America for some reason. Chicago did move to longitudinal seats with their newest 5000-series, but many other systems like SEPTA, PATCO, BART, MARTA, LA or Washington all kept the transverse alignment, even for their most recent or upcoming purchases. In Europe or Japan, these are mostly used on suburban trains (not metro per se, but still rapid transit-type services).
 

kEiThZ

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^ Could the narrower width of most European subway cars have something to do with their seating layout?
 

golodhendil

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^ Could the narrower width of most European subway cars have something to do with their seating layout?
But Chicago and Philly (Market-Frankford) trainsets are just as narrow or narrower than NYC cars (which actually still have older stocks with transverse seats). They are wider than some European cars (eg, Berlin narrow-profile, most Paris stock), but comparable to others like most London ones, and some of the narrow Paris cars actually do have transverse seats too (I actually didn't realize how common they are on the Paris metro). On the other hand, many of the exclusively-longitudinal seating Asian systems (HK, Singapore, Tokyo) actually have wider trains than many American systems with transverse seating (almost as wide as TTC trains). So I don't think width really has much to do with it, but instead has more to do with emphasis on efficiency by stuffing more standees intro the trains vs comfort (perceived or otherwise) of passengers.
 

CodeMonkey

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We still cant bring any new trains up here because the Carhouse is not ready yet.........and just to think a few months ago some people on here were calling me a liar and saying I was spreading rumors about all this LOL.

I'm assuming when you mean that the Carhouse is not done, that you mean they haven't finish tearing down the old Wilson Carhouse.
 

wyliepoon

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IIRC, the TTC originally wanted to go with side-facing benches on both sides for the TR (the so-called "cattle car" configuration) but rider backlash prompted them to revert to a configuration more or less the same as the T1s.

When TTC was doing design research for the new trains, they sent their staff to study trains in Hong Kong's MTR and the Shenzhen Metro. Trains in both systems have side benches.
 

EnviroTO

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I don't think the change would add that much room. On the center facing seats the passengers legs extend out almost as far as the edge of the front-back facing seat does.
 

noctis

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The TTC has updated the website and said that the first TRs will be in service in 2011. I guess this was a no surprise since it was already expected.
 

Agram

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I'm assuming when you mean that the Carhouse is not done, that you mean they haven't finish tearing down the old Wilson Carhouse.

Where did you get the idea that the old Carhouse is going to be torn down? An addition was built do accommodate the new trains.
 

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