11 Bay | 269.45m | 54s | QuadReal

ryguy7787

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Everyone has thought of it. Everyone likes supertalls. It's just not economical.

Not even a supertall....just a building that would help offset losing the size of the current hotel on the south side. I just used the term as an example.... but even if it wasn' a supertall, I would think it would be close to what's on One Yonge or the new CIBC Towers
 

ADRM

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It refers to the City but doesn't get into the details

"Proposed development on the Conference Centre site will require further discussion with the City of Toronto. The existing Management Agreement is flexible and has provisions to accommodate unlocking the development potential."

"11 BAY STREET – WESTIN HARBOUR CASTLE CONFERENCE CENTRE According to Bousfields Inc., the Conference Centre site could accommodate a two tower scheme with a 4-storey podium, subject to a successful rezoning. Currently, the existing 2-storey Conference Centre contains ~110,000 gross square feet. Bousfields has made the evaluation that the site can support the development of a 57-storey tower at the northeast corner of the block with a floor plate of ~10,000 square feet and a 52-storey tower at the southwest corner of the site with a floor plate of ~9,400 square feet. A podium that connects the two towers could be constructed to include a grand entrance with street or underground parking, and public space servicing both towers. This would eliminate the existing ~110,000 square foot Conference Centre. The development potential of the two towers at the Conference Centre site have been estimated to be a total of ~1,130,000 square feet. Further negotiation is required with the City of Toronto for development at the Conference Centre site"

Yup, here's a conceptual visualization of that setup (a third tower added south of QQ and two towers on top of a podium north of QQ) from the vendor booklet:

Screen Shot 2018-03-24 at 5.26.33 PM.png
 

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maestro

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Not even a supertall....just a building that would help offset losing the size of the current hotel on the south side. I just used the term as an example.... but even if it wasn' a supertall, I would think it would be close to what's on One Yonge or the new CIBC Towers

The Sheraton Centre recently sold for $340 million. I think it's fair to say the existing hotel here is around $170 million. That's a lot of money to throw into the wind.
 

maestro

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Hey i'll take 2 x 60 storey 200m+ towers on the Conference Centre site,
but please let's get a design that's very different from everything else in Southcore

That's just the sales pitch to justify the huge price tag. I can see some issues arising with putting two 60 storey towers on the convention centre site. Good luck getting a third tower built on the hotel site.
 

raptor

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Static signs to be replaced with an electronic screen. Sign variance application submitted on Jan 18, 2019.

Before:
173954


After:
173955
 

greenleaf

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CreateTO agenda item for 11 Bay: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2020.RA11.2

"The purpose of this report is to provide an update to the Board of CreateTO on the ongoing conversations between staff of CreateTO and QuadReal Property Group Limited Partnership ("QuadReal") and Barney River Investments Limited ("Barney River"), the managers acting on behalf for the tenant, on a proposed long-term lease renewal/new lease agreement and redevelopment of the City owned property at 11 Bay Street (the "Subject Property"). QuadReal and Barney River have proposed a complete redevelopment of the Subject Property which will result in a new office tower and rebuilt convention centre at grade.

As part of this proposed lease agreement, CreateTO has been working with the City's Parks, Forestry and Recreation, Community Planning and Economic Development divisions to understand the opportunities that exist within this proposal for the Subject Property itself, and within the broader public realm in the Central Waterfront. Along with a new office tower and rebuilt convention centre, there is an opportunity to leverage the City owned asset to partially fund the redevelopment of the Jack Layton Ferry Terminal ("JLFT"), along with negotiating into the lease agreement, obligations for design excellence, sustainability and connectivity along with ground level activation. CreateTO and Community Planning have identified this redevelopment of the Subject Property as an excellent candidate to help advance the City's Urban Design Initiative which could see an open and international design competition for this major and transformational project.

The current term of the existing ground lease between the City of Toronto, as landlord ("City") and SCG Aquarius Toronto Hotel, Inc., as tenant and SCG Aquarius Toronto Hotel, Inc., in its capacity as General Partner for SWA Toronto L.P., as beneficial tenant (collectively the "Tenant") for 11 Bay Street expires on May 31, 2030, with the option of two subsequent 5 year renewal terms. These options may be exercised by the Tenant in accordance with the terms of the ground lease, but the City's retained the absolute discretion on whether or not to grant the renewal options. At the end of the lease term, the Tenant is required to surrender the Subject Property and all buildings and improvements thereon to the City."
 

urbanyimby

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CreateTO agenda item for 11 Bay: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2020.RA11.2

"The purpose of this report is to provide an update to the Board of CreateTO on the ongoing conversations between staff of CreateTO and QuadReal Property Group Limited Partnership ("QuadReal") and Barney River Investments Limited ("Barney River"), the managers acting on behalf for the tenant, on a proposed long-term lease renewal/new lease agreement and redevelopment of the City owned property at 11 Bay Street (the "Subject Property"). QuadReal and Barney River have proposed a complete redevelopment of the Subject Property which will result in a new office tower and rebuilt convention centre at grade.

As part of this proposed lease agreement, CreateTO has been working with the City's Parks, Forestry and Recreation, Community Planning and Economic Development divisions to understand the opportunities that exist within this proposal for the Subject Property itself, and within the broader public realm in the Central Waterfront. Along with a new office tower and rebuilt convention centre, there is an opportunity to leverage the City owned asset to partially fund the redevelopment of the Jack Layton Ferry Terminal ("JLFT"), along with negotiating into the lease agreement, obligations for design excellence, sustainability and connectivity along with ground level activation. CreateTO and Community Planning have identified this redevelopment of the Subject Property as an excellent candidate to help advance the City's Urban Design Initiative which could see an open and international design competition for this major and transformational project.

The current term of the existing ground lease between the City of Toronto, as landlord ("City") and SCG Aquarius Toronto Hotel, Inc., as tenant and SCG Aquarius Toronto Hotel, Inc., in its capacity as General Partner for SWA Toronto L.P., as beneficial tenant (collectively the "Tenant") for 11 Bay Street expires on May 31, 2030, with the option of two subsequent 5 year renewal terms. These options may be exercised by the Tenant in accordance with the terms of the ground lease, but the City's retained the absolute discretion on whether or not to grant the renewal options. At the end of the lease term, the Tenant is required to surrender the Subject Property and all buildings and improvements thereon to the City."
So the city can't touch the convention centre until 2030, and in turn, can't get the funding for the new ferry terminal until that time?
 

DSC

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So the city can't touch the convention centre until 2030, and in turn, can't get the funding for the new ferry terminal until that time?
I think if you read the Report you will agree with me that the lessee wants to renegotiate the lease NOW (not wait until 2030) and the result will be a NEW lease. The Report concludes.. "The potential rent that will be derived off this new lease agreement provides a real opportunity to advance a significant public realm and city building opportunity in the redevelopment of the JLFT which is directly adjacent to the Weston Harbour Castle Hotel. In 2014, Waterfront Toronto and Parks, Forestry and Recreation undertook an international design competition to develop at a new, inspiring vision for the JLFT and adjacent Harbour Square Park. Phase 1 of that project has been implemented, but there has not been any further advancement. The opportunity to direct revenue off of any potential land lease of 11 Bay Street could serve as a catalyst to help realise subsequent phases of this important civic project. "
 

ADRM

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I think if you read the Report you will agree with me that the lessee wants to renegotiate the lease NOW (not wait until 2030) and the result will be a NEW lease. The Report concludes.. "The potential rent that will be derived off this new lease agreement provides a real opportunity to advance a significant public realm and city building opportunity in the redevelopment of the JLFT which is directly adjacent to the Weston Harbour Castle Hotel. In 2014, Waterfront Toronto and Parks, Forestry and Recreation undertook an international design competition to develop at a new, inspiring vision for the JLFT and adjacent Harbour Square Park. Phase 1 of that project has been implemented, but there has not been any further advancement. The opportunity to direct revenue off of any potential land lease of 11 Bay Street could serve as a catalyst to help realise subsequent phases of this important civic project. "

Yeah, that was my read as well — essentially the practical reality being that the value uplift realized through an impending redevelopment is greater than the future accumulated value of the current lease between now and the end of its term.

Ergo, the redevelopment occurs sometime between now and 2030 and part of the value capture is effectively commuted to the ferry terminal project sometime between 2020 and 2030.
 

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