The United BLDG (Davpart/H&R Developments) - Real Estate -

innsertnamehere said:
Their height dropped by 6m though too though? That seems to pretty much account for the loss of 2 floors.

Also, a lot of floors have 2.75m slab to slab heights.. the ceilings aren't exactly high.

I do like that new parking ratio, 97 residential spaces for 713 units. 0.13/unit. Very nice.

I just generally still do not understand this project and why it's apparently worth $1,500/ft. The whole thing just makes no sense to me. they must have some sort of incredible broker network that can push these units.
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$1500/ft? You wish! :)
Their studios start from $2000/ft.
 
I think the only thing United has over the well is Path and subway access. Other than that, the Well is better in virtually every way. Plus Tridel is a quality builder. I'm pretty surprised at the price point. Good on them.
 
The Building looks nice. I really like the arcade as well. Anyone have any background info on Davpart?
Can see that they sold out Avro and are selling 1 Elginton East. But are they a reputable builder?
 
Clearly I don't see any vetted investors here with some of these posts.

First of all, completion is set for 2024-2025. Builder is guaranteeing a rental of $8.15/sqft.

Next, Shangri-La currently sells for $1.2-$1.3 for a 2 bd 2 ba (slightly bigger). Inflation alone in 4-5 years will drive this number up.

Have you seen 11 Yorkville pricing? It's slightly higher, and what are you getting out of it as an investor? Nothing besides a brand name.

If you secured a 40+ floor unit with 2 bd 2 ba facing South in this project... you've scored big. Just because you can't afford a unit doesn't mean it's overpriced. United isn't a brand name like 11 Yorkville for them to be charging out of proportion for no reason.
 
Cryptopreneur said:
Clearly I don't see any vetted investors here with some of these posts.

First of all, completion is set for 2024-2025. Builder is guaranteeing a rental of $8.15/sqft.

Next, Shangri-La currently sells for $1.2-$1.3 for a 2 bd 2 ba (slightly bigger). Inflation alone in 4-5 years will drive this number up.

Have you seen 11 Yorkville pricing? It's slightly higher, and what are you getting out of it as an investor? Nothing besides a brand name.

If you secured a 40+ floor unit with 2 bd 2 ba facing South in this project... you've scored big. Just because you can't afford a unit doesn't mean it's overpriced. United isn't a brand name like 11 Yorkville for them to be charging out of proportion for no reason.
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How do you see this project vs its contemporaries in Yorkville (ie: 11 YV), Harbourfront (ie: The Well) or a bit closer to King West (ie: Big King), etc?
 
Cryptopreneur said:
Clearly I don't see any vetted investors here with some of these posts.

First of all, completion is set for 2024-2025. Builder is guaranteeing a rental of $8.15/sqft.

Next, Shangri-La currently sells for $1.2-$1.3 for a 2 bd 2 ba (slightly bigger). Inflation alone in 4-5 years will drive this number up.

Have you seen 11 Yorkville pricing? It's slightly higher, and what are you getting out of it as an investor? Nothing besides a brand name.

If you secured a 40+ floor unit with 2 bd 2 ba facing South in this project... you've scored big. Just because you can't afford a unit doesn't mean it's overpriced. United isn't a brand name like 11 Yorkville for them to be charging out of proportion for no reason.
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Do you have any sales numbers? If not, sure, you are entitled to your opinions.

The fact that the builder came up with these ridiculous promotions ($6500 rental income for a 800 sqft condo? seriously...), it's a clear sign that sales aren't going well. A building positioned as luxurious but with 18 units (mostly small) per floor doesn't look attractive at all to rich people. Sure you'd get a nice view looking over downtown skyscrapers on a high floor, but there are so many units in downtown that offer fabulous views, but for less than $1.6mil. The builder is inexperienced and was too optimistic about sales, and perhaps a bit too greedy too.
 
koogle said:
Do you have any sales numbers? If not, sure, you are entitled to your opinions.

The fact that the builder came up with these ridiculous promotions ($6500 rental income for a 800 sqft condo? seriously...), it's a clear sign that sales aren't going well. A building positioned as luxurious but with 18 units (mostly small) per floor doesn't look attractive at all to rich people. Sure you'd get a nice view looking over downtown skyscrapers on a high floor, but there are so many units in downtown that offer fabulous views, but for less than $1.6mil. The builder is inexperienced and was too optimistic about sales, and perhaps a bit too greedy too.
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The past two weeks they’ve been selling like crazy (was there today to drop off papers). By the way, these sales are from the recent increase in prices if you guys aren’t aware. Yeah, they’ve increased prices by at least $50k/unit and people are still buying. Again, this is not 11 Yorkville. United offers investors an incredible opportunity. But then again... the good suites are mostly all gone. 40+ level units facing south are sold out.
 
Cryptopreneur said:
The past two weeks they’ve been selling like crazy (was there today to drop off papers). By the way, these sales are from the recent increase in prices if you guys aren’t aware. Yeah, they’ve increased prices by at least $50k/unit and people are still buying. Again, this is not 11 Yorkville. United offers investors an incredible opportunity. But then again... the good suites are mostly all gone. 40+ level units facing south are sold out.
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They're selling because of those high rental guarantees.
 
How do builders assess the rates of rental guarantees?
And are the high rental guarantee rates actually high, or fair market value based on 5-6 yr time horizon in the future?
 
Cryptopreneur said:
Clearly I don't see any vetted investors here with some of these posts.

First of all, completion is set for 2024-2025. Builder is guaranteeing a rental of $8.15/sqft.

Next, Shangri-La currently sells for $1.2-$1.3 for a 2 bd 2 ba (slightly bigger). Inflation alone in 4-5 years will drive this number up.

Have you seen 11 Yorkville pricing? It's slightly higher, and what are you getting out of it as an investor? Nothing besides a brand name.

If you secured a 40+ floor unit with 2 bd 2 ba facing South in this project... you've scored big. Just because you can't afford a unit doesn't mean it's overpriced. United isn't a brand name like 11 Yorkville for them to be charging out of proportion for no reason.
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Its in Yorkville, not Chinatown, for one.

For two, this isn't a luxury building. It's tiny shoebox units, unlike Shangri-La.

For three, if you think rents are actually going to double over the next 7 years you are nuts. The last few years has had some pretty incredible increases but they are not sustainable for a full decade. Most stuff downtown is barely above $4.00/foot right now. Expecting it to go to $8.15 in 6-7 years is.. aggressive. You are talking about someone needing a household income of $180,000 to afford a 1 bed 550sf unit..

I get "why" this is selling for what it is, I just see it as a very risky project to buy in when there is a lot better product elsewhere that doesn't require you to bet on 15% annual rent / resale price increases for a decade straight.
 
2014-2019, rent rates increased by approx. 6.7% CAGR. To get to $8.15 in 2025, rent needs to increase by almost 13% annually (CAGR), so aggressive is a slight understatement.

If you quantify the incentive, it's worth less than $50psf NPV.
  • A $4psf rental rate today growing at 6.7% CAGR (assuming this is achievable) would mean a market rate of $5.8psf (2025) and $6.2psf (2026)
  • This equates to a $50psf incentive, that's not paid out until 2025/2026
    • $8.15psf 2-year rental guarantee equates to an incentive of $2.3psf x 12 (in 2025) and a $2.0 x 12 (in 2026)
  • Since you don't get that cash until 2025/2026, discount this $50psf with whatever your cost of capital is...and it's less than $50psf
At the pricing this is being offered at, I don't see why people don't pick up Wells Signature Series (approx $1400psf) or even Westbank's King instead.
 
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Rimsky44 said:
2014-2019, rent rates increased by approx. 6.7% CAGR. To get to $8.15 in 2025, rent needs to increase by almost 13% annually (CAGR), so aggressive is a slight understatement.

If you quantify the incentive, it's worth less than $50psf NPV.
  • A $4psf rental rate today growing at 6.7% CAGR (assuming this is achievable) would mean a market rate of $5.8psf (2025) and $6.2psf (2026)
  • This equates to a $50psf incentive, that's not paid out until 2025/2026
    • $8.15psf 2-year rental guarantee equates to an incentive of $2.3psf x 12 (in 2025) and a $2.0 x 12 (in 2026)
  • Since you don't get that cash until 2025/2026, discount this $50psf with whatever your cost of capital is...and it's less than $50psf
At the pricing this is being offered at, I don't see why people don't pick up Wells Signature Series (approx $1400psf) or even Westbank's King instead.
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Spot on !!! I wouldn't touch this project with a 10' Pole
 
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