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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

PS: Wages of the ONR operating crew who would work the Northlander, like many railroaders, exceeds the minumum level for Ontario’s Sunshine List. In past years, ONR RTE’s have regularly turned up on the list.

Nothing wrong with that - they earn every penny, as do the many first responders, transit employees, health care workers, and even janitors these days.

Personally, I think the Sunshine List with its non-inflated minimum reporting threshold has become an anachronism... but it will be an interesting exercise for Mr Ford to explain why he added people to the list while attacking the civil service compensation levels.

One of the key reasons why the Liberals took aim at Ontario Northland is that the pension liabilities associated with ONR ballooned and their pension fund was about to collapse. Reinstating the Northlander will put pressure on that problem. Can’t wait to see the costing for that.

- Paul
 
micheal_can said:
It was south of Novar and North of Huntsville.

Would it just be a matter of flipping a switch?
Click to expand...

I checked a bunch of old documentation circa 2002 that came to me from a retired railroader. I'm confident that CN hasn't added signalling since then. The last northward signal on the Newmarket Sub was at MP 112.3 (Gravenhurst) and the first southward signal was t MP 114.0 (Approach to Gravenhurst siding).

I don't know what you believe you saw but it was not a railway signal.

For those who care - the zone speeds for passenger on the Newmarket Sub were 60 mph north of MP 193.5 (South River-ish), 65 mph between 193.5 and Huntsville, and 70 mph south of Huntsville.... with plenty of slower PSO's along the way. You can be sure CN has lowered those since the Northlander stopped running.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
One of the key reasons why the Liberals took aim at Ontario Northland is that the pension liabilities associated with ONR ballooned and their pension fund was about to collapse. Reinstating the Northlander will put pressure on that problem. Can’t wait to see the costing for that.

- Paul
Click to expand...

Another one of the reasons was their archaic operating agreements with their staff. There is no reason why in 2018 why they are still operating on stick rail-equipped mainlines - and with all of the requisite maintenance that goes with it. There is no reason why in 2018 they are still operating under steam-era operating contracts that require two train crews to operate from Cochrane to North Bay. Just as why there was no reason in 2012 they were operating the bus and the train divisions as competitors to each other.

Frankly, until they get their own house in order I wouldn't feel comfortable giving them the money to resurrect the Northlander.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Another one of the reasons was their archaic operating agreements with their staff. There is no reason why in 2018 why they are still operating on stick rail-equipped mainlines - and with all of the requisite maintenance that goes with it. There is no reason why in 2018 they are still operating under steam-era operating contracts that require two train crews to operate from Cochrane to North Bay. Just as why there was no reason in 2012 they were operating the bus and the train divisions as competitors to each other.

Frankly, until they get their own house in order I wouldn't feel comfortable giving them the money to resurrect the Northlander.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...

You speak of some truths.

The bus and train need to be integrated somehow.

The train crews should be simply switched out at terminals like most other train crews due. Since they can only work 12 hours, make the switching areas well within that time so it does not need to be rescued.
 
From the Committee Promoting Muskoka Rail Travel, they are proposing a "loop" (I assume different services) throughout Northern Ontario for passenger rail.

rally-for-rail-poster-image_1_orig.png
 
I know that this is pure politics but has anyone actually done a real case study to see if bringing back the Ontario Northland can be justified and what number of people will actually be willing to take the train?
 
nfitz said:
Somebody didn't read what I was writing. It's not 728 km from Toronto to North Bay!

Can you imagine the bus doing 728 km in 5 hours!
Click to expand...
That 145 km/hr when speed limit is only 80-100 km/hr
 
ssiguy2 said:
I know that this is pure politics but has anyone actually done a real case study to see if bringing back the Ontario Northland can be justified and what number of people will actually be willing to take the train?
Click to expand...

Ford quoted a $40m annual subsidy requirement. Not sure if that's for all of ONR (including Mossonee) or just Toronto-Cochrane
 
muller877 said:
Ford quoted a $40m annual subsidy requirement. Not sure if that's for all of ONR (including Mossonee) or just Toronto-Cochrane
Click to expand...

Sarcasm aside, and giving that figure the benefit of the doubt, $40M per year is $200M over five years. Imagine that some political party transformed that into a Northern Ontario Infrastructure Grant Program. Would communities line up for a share of the money? Would the Northlander be their number one request? Yes, and no. There are a lot of things the North would get greater benefit from than a passenger train.

- Paul
 
Alternatively, $40m a year could buy 4km of twinned Trans Canada annually. Wonder if they would prefer that. That is more or less the pace that the province has been twinning Highway 69.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Alternatively, $40m a year could buy 4km of twinned Trans Canada annually. Wonder if they would prefer that. That is more or less the pace that the province has been twinning Highway 69.
Click to expand...

At over 2000km of the Trans Canada highway not 4 lanes, that will only take about 250 years...
 
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