News   Sep 27, 2022
 982     1 
News   Sep 27, 2022
 886     0 
News   Sep 27, 2022
 1.6K     0 

The Beer Store: Political Reasons to Keep/Kill It

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
12,148
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
12,148
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
During prohibition (Ontario 1916 to 1923, though alcohol could be bought with a doctor's prescription or for religious purposes), especially during the U.S. reign (1920 to 1933), the Canadian brewers made a fortune selling their legal booze to U.S. gangsters, who sold it illegally to their customers (for more fortunes). Why break up their current monopoly where they make fortunes on Ontario current version of "prohibition". It's business, and it's good for them, why change it. "Prohibition" is good business for the breweries.
 
Last edited:

spider

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,214
Reaction score
1
During prohibition (Ontario 1916 to 1923, though alcohol could be bought with a doctor's prescription or for religious purposes), especially during the U.S. reign (1920 to 1933), the Canadian brewers made a fortune selling their legal booze to U.S. gangsters, who sold it illegally to their customers (for more fortunes). Why break up their current monopoly where they make fortunes on Ontario current version of "prohibition". It's business, and it's good for them, why change it. "Prohibition" is good business for the breweries.
??
 

jozl

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
466
Reaction score
460
This is bad news, however, one class action suit is still in the works. Here is a quote from the Star article:
"Hassell’s manoeuvring was separate from a $1.4-billion class-action lawsuit filed by Burlington pub owner David Hughes against the Beer Store and the Liquor Control Board of Ontario".
I really don't expect much of a change to be offered by the Wynne government. There might be a little window dressing but I think TBS will remain intact. They might have to cough up a little money to the province but I doubt there will be any significant changes to benefit consumers. I doubt we will see any attempt to institute genuine free enterprise to beer sales. The cartel will remain, there will not be beer sold in supermarkets, and the price fixing will continue. I hope my pessimism is proved wrong but…living in Ontario has made me doubt it.
Kudos to Martin Regg Cohn of The Toronto Star for his exposé of the cartel.
 

Tewder

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
154
Don't ever underestimate the breadth and depth of Ontario apathy. It confers enormous power, and our political leaders know it. They will bluster a little now to not make it too obvious that they intend to do nothing about it, and then will just let it die its quick natural death as an issue at all, knowing full well that Hoser Joe and Hoser Jane just don't really care about anything anyway.
 

wopchop

Building Toronto
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
1,645
Reaction score
746
Location
Oakville
No beer in Ontario convenience stores, says Kathleen Wynne (Link: Toronto Star)
Premier Kathleen Wynne has brews you can use — beer will not be sold in corner stores when reforms come this spring.
“There are changes coming. It’s not whether there will be change, it’s just a matter of what that change will be — so stay tuned,†Wynne told reporters Monday during a campaign-style swing through the Thorncliffe Park pregnancy clinic in her Don Valley West riding.
“We’re not going to have beer in convenience stores. There is change coming however,†she said.
It’s unclear whether that means beer could be sold in supermarkets, such as Loblaws, or big-box retailers like Costco.

This part is my favourite;
“Their position is that they can’t afford to absorb a tax,†the Bay Street titan said in November when his panel released a 77-page interim report, entitled “Retain & Gain: Making Ontario’s Assets Work Better for Taxpayers and Consumers.â€
“If we do decide to charge a franchise fee of some sort (and they say) they don’t have any room, they’re just right up against the wall here and they don’t have a dollar to give . . . we’re saying, ‘Well, then that means you’re really saying is that this franchise that you have is worthless. Would you then give it up?’†said Clark.
“And then they say they don’t want to, but they don’t want to pay for it. We don’t think that’s a reasonable position. If you really think this thing is valueless, then give it up and we’ll auction it off and see if people would pay something for it.â€

Board of Directors for TBS must either be completely naive, or they are complete liars. I suspect the latter. If they really aren't making good money and can't absorb any fees, then fuck 'em. Auction the franchise off to someone willing to pay, or dismantle the monopoly.
 
Last edited:

The Golem

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Messages
275
Reaction score
5
When you look at TBS website and their jobs/career opportunities page offering competitive wages and benefits it appears to be a profitable business.
 

ladyscraper

man alive
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
529
Reaction score
1
Politicians are so gutless. They never do what is right even if it's blindingly obvious. Everyone can see how terrible the Beer Store is and how it makes no sense to have a government approved monopoly- but they never do what is right. I wish just for once they would just do what is better for the future without considering how their actions affect their campaign donations or voter impact. I suppose it's too much to ask to have politicians that make our city/province/country better. Everything is about getting re-elected with no thought to the right decisions that benefit us (Scarborough subway *cough*)
 

jozl

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
466
Reaction score
460
Can't say I'm surprised. Wynne will do what's best to keep her miserable party in power. She will cut a deal with TBS (i.e. extort a bit of money for the Ontario treasury) and it will be status quo. She can then claim she cut a good deal for Ontario (nominal at best), continue to accept "donations" (i.e. bribes) to the Liberal party from the TBS and its union and consumers will get nothing. We will still be stuck with the same Soviet style Beer Store, high prices and lousy service. Thanks for nothing Ms Wynne. This is one case where I hope I'm proved wrong and we will see beer sold in supermarkets, but I doubt it.
 

Tewder

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
154
At the end of the day we get the government and policies we deserve. We allow the monopolies, anti-constitutional practises (i'm thinking about separate school system here), and wasted money because we don't hold our government responsible. We don't take to the streets and threaten their complacency. A democracy erodes away with an apathetic population.
 

TOareaFan

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
11,927
Reaction score
2,517
Can't say I'm surprised. Wynne will do what's best to keep her miserable party in power. She will cut a deal with TBS (i.e. extort a bit of money for the Ontario treasury) and it will be status quo. She can then claim she cut a good deal for Ontario (nominal at best), continue to accept "donations" (i.e. bribes) to the Liberal party from the TBS and its union and consumers will get nothing. We will still be stuck with the same Soviet style Beer Store, high prices and lousy service. Thanks for nothing Ms Wynne. This is one case where I hope I'm proved wrong and we will see beer sold in supermarkets, but I doubt it.

I am no great fan of the current provincial government but I have to take exception to the part of your post that I bolded. In this case she appears to be doing precisely the opposite. Over the past few years, making beer and wine more accessible in more places has taken on a heightened importance with the electorate. It is the populist issue of the day in Ontario. If she were only concerned with staying in power, the decision would seem quite easy. I think what she is primarily concerned, in this case, with maintaining (perhaps even increasing) the amount of money the treasury gets from the sale of beer and alcohol......in fact her panel on this was very clear that they suggested ways to increase those revenues.....and finding a way to squeeze some sort of annual fee from TBS might be the way to do that.....but it won't win many votes!
 

ttk77

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
280
Location
Harbourfront
Views on public and private monopolies aside, I'd hate to end up in the same situation as Alberta where they have a private system that allows them to sell in grocery stores, but has also given them higher prices than we have.
 

P23

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
772
Reaction score
312
I am no great fan of the current provincial government but I have to take exception to the part of your post that I bolded. In this case she appears to be doing precisely the opposite. Over the past few years, making beer and wine more accessible in more places has taken on a heightened importance with the electorate. It is the populist issue of the day in Ontario. If she were only concerned with staying in power, the decision would seem quite easy. I think what she is primarily concerned, in this case, with maintaining (perhaps even increasing) the amount of money the treasury gets from the sale of beer and alcohol......in fact her panel on this was very clear that they suggested ways to increase those revenues.....and finding a way to squeeze some sort of annual fee from TBS might be the way to do that.....but it won't win many votes!

Seems like odd reasoning. Ontario gets tax money from beer sold in the beer store, it doesn't matter where it's sold in this case. Looser liquor laws would increase sales and thus increase tax revenue.
 

Top