Toronto Ten York Street Condos | 224.02m | 65s | Tridel | Wallman Architects

brockm said:
We'll see. How many of those pre-construction sales are investors? I'm betting the majority.
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It isn't the majority. Not by a long shot. Besides that though, many of those investors don't plan on selling immediately. They'll usually rent the unit first, and with the rental market at all time low vacancy levels, a condo is still a good investment.
 
brockm said:
Depends how big the deposit is. If it's less than 10K, it might be a lot easier to walk away from if you're scared of the market than you might think for a lot of these foreign investors, especially. But even if it's near 20K, if the market falls off say 10% in the next 6 months, I think you'll see a lot of people cutting their losses and not wanting to wait out a lull.
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10k? 20k? Have you ever bought pre-contruction in Toronto?? lol Tridel would want 25% deposit within a year or so, with probably 10% in the first 2 months....That's an $87,500.00 investment on a $350,000.00 unit...of which this project didn't have many at that price....
 
DtTO said:
It isn't the majority. Not by a long shot. Besides that though, many of those investors don't plan on selling immediately. They'll usually rent the unit first, and with the rental market at all time low vacancy levels, a condo is still a good investment.
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As a real estate agent, I have been showing many of these new units to potential renters and here is what I have seen:

- units less than two years old already hosting third or forth tenant
- damaged hardwood floors - repaired with laminate or not repaired
- damaged granite counter tops - corner broken off - unprepared - landlord does not intend to repair
- poorly repaired drywall damage
- badly damaged carpeted areas

This is in units that are being shown - clearly the "landlords" don't care and this is the biggest problem this boom may create - landlords who don't know how to be landlords - and thousands of them. These buildings can easily slide into general disrepair and this can happen quickly and can "infect" an area making it undesirable. This is my fear.
 
Big Daddy said:
As a real estate agent, I have been showing many of these new units to potential renters and here is what I have seen:

- units less than two years old already hosting third or forth tenant
- damaged hardwood floors - repaired with laminate or not repaired
- damaged granite counter tops - corner broken off - unprepared - landlord does not intend to repair
- poorly repaired drywall damage
- badly damaged carpeted areas

This is in units that are being shown - clearly the "landlords" don't care and this is the biggest problem this boom may create - landlords who don't know how to be landlords - and thousands of them. These buildings can easily slide into general disrepair and this can happen quickly and can "infect" an area making it undesirable. This is my fear.
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I think this is a serious problem;

You're likely to see this in any condo development where a vast percentage of the units are rented by owners. Now, I'm sure many owners do a good job taking care of their units, but it only takes a few (say 10% or so) to badly damage the reputation of a building.


What will help with this ?

The next condominium act ! If you haven't heard, this gives a lot more power to the condo board (i.e. the owners) to handle disctruntle owners and namely their tenants.

Now if there are many owners that just don't care, this may not help. But you have to think the majority of renters do care as of course this effects the resale and rental rates.
 
Taal, that sounds great. Care to elaborate on specific amendments being implemented in the condo act that will curb this issue?
 
brockm said:
Depends how big the deposit is. If it's less than 10K, it might be a lot easier to walk away from if you're scared of the market than you might think for a lot of these foreign investors, especially. But even if it's near 20K, if the market falls off say 10% in the next 6 months, I think you'll see a lot of people cutting their losses and not wanting to wait out a lull.
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Just go look at rental vacancy rates and let me know when you think the demand for new units is going to end. An investors decision is based on rental rates and cost of carry. As long as interest rates stay low and rental demand stays high there will continue to be investor demand.

Right now there is demand for units from new people coming into the city and low interest rates create a positive return on investment in condos. We've seen a slow down in condo sales, but as it stands now the Toronto condo market appears to achieved the fabled soft landing.
 
Mo-tage said:
Just go look at rental vacancy rates and let me know when you think the demand for new units is going to end. An investors decision is based on rental rates and cost of carry. As long as interest rates stay low and rental demand stays high there will continue to be investor demand.

Right now there is demand for units from new people coming into the city and low interest rates create a positive return on investment in condos. We've seen a slow down in condo sales, but as it stands now the Toronto condo market appears to achieved the fabled soft landing.
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This is predicated on the idea that potential income from rental demand is matching the sale prices of the condos. The rent-price ratio in Toronto condos is horrendous.

Rental prices have gone up around 6% in the downtown core in the past 5 years, while prices have gone up many many times that. I don't think renters are going to save the market.
 
Big Daddy said:
As a real estate agent, I have been showing many of these new units to potential renters and here is what I have seen:

- units less than two years old already hosting third or forth tenant
- damaged hardwood floors - repaired with laminate or not repaired
- damaged granite counter tops - corner broken off - unprepared - landlord does not intend to repair
- poorly repaired drywall damage
- badly damaged carpeted areas
Click to expand...

And these landlords will quickly learn that they'll need to better screen their tenants and include cost of repairs/refreshing every X year(s) in their carrying costs for the unit.

4 tenants in 2 years is absurd and far from the norm IMO.
 
brockm said:
Rental prices have gone up around 6% in the downtown core in the past 5 years, while prices have gone up many many times that. I don't think renters are going to save the market.
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Dude, are you living under a rock? Where did you get that 6% over 5yrs from? "Condo" (not Apartment) rental rates have skyrockected over the past 2yrs. Take it from someone who is on the ground and seeing rental bidding wars daily.

Also, as mentioned by another poster, Builders require 20-25% deposit for pre-construction; I doubt anyone will be walking away from that. The sky wont be falling on downtown condos anytime soon.....
 
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From today's Toronto Star: "Jim Ritchie, vice-president of Tridel, which hopes to start construction on its Ten York project by the end of 2013 and has sold 620 of the building's 694 units."

That's 89%!
 
I have a gut feeling that this project might end up dissapointing like AURA.

With such important location from the lake-view, and possibly blocking the ICE Towers upon completion, TRIDEL really need to get back to the drawing board on this.
Something in line with 1 Yonge project designs will be appropriate for this location.
 
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