Subway To Mississauga: Routing

[Dan416]

In the past I have always assumed a westerly extension of the Bloor line would follow Dundas St. via Sherway, as has been on the books since the RTES. On SSC, rail expert TRZ has proposed the routing follow Bloor St. instead. He reasons that Dundas is too industrial in nature, and Bloor has high-density housing along much of its length. Let the voting begin!

 

[doady]

The RTES did not propose a subway along Dundas, it proposed a subway along the Milton line, which is the dumbest option of all.

On SSC, rail expert TRZ has proposed the routing follow Bloor St. instead. He reasons that Dundas is too industrial in nature, and Bloor has high-density housing along much of its length. Let the voting begin!

TRZ knows nothing. Dundas is mostly commercial and has a lot of redevelopment potential. Bloor doesn't have much redevelopment potential at all, and it isn't even all that dense to begin with. Besides, the Dundas bus is much busier than the Bloor bus, isn't it? Route 1 and 201 together get over 18,000 riders per weekday, similar to what VIVA Blue + Yonge C in York Region have now.

I think LRT is good enough for Dundas, though the subway should be extended to East Mall also.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I voted that the line go across Bloor. The only thing that would change my mind is if Transit got taken more seriously in the GTA. Then I would vote to Extend it down Dundas so that it could be taken over by Mississauga Transit and extended further once demand is met across the entire line. The same should go for the Yonge expansion to Richmond Hill as well, but I think it is more important, as the Yonge extension is almost 100% going to happen.

 

[Dan416]

The RTES did not propose a subway along Dundas, it proposed a subway along the Milton line, which is the dumbest option of all.



TRZ knows nothing. Dundas is mostly commercial and has a lot of redevelopment potential. Bloor doesn't have much redevelopment potential at all, and it isn't even all that dense to begin with. Besides, the Dundas bus is much busier than the Bloor bus, isn't it? Route 1 and 201 together get over 18,000 riders per weekday, similar to what VIVA Blue + Yonge C in York Region have now.

I think LRT is good enough for Dundas, though the subway should be extended to East Mall also.

I think the vast majority of Dundas St. riders aren't originating from Dundas St itself anyway, so people would just switch to Bloor St Subway, which would be closer to most people anyway (most Mississaugans live north of Dundas I'd say--and people in the south have the Lakeshore line anyway).

Bloor would take all the 3's ridership, plus a lot of riders from the 1/201 Dundas and the 26/76 Burnhamthorpe and even the 20 Rathburn. We should put the subway where the riders are, and Dundas is mostly commerical as you point out, and we'd have to rely on it to be redeveloped.

 

[drum118]

Running the line along Dundas bypassing Sherway will draw the largest development as well ridership. It will draw development for this blight area that calling out for redevelopment now. One only has to drive/ride it between 427 and Dixie to see it.

Running the line through the Valleys is a waste of transit unless you going to tear everything down and start from scratch. Even then it will not have the density as Dundas will have.

This also applies Burnhamthorpe. You do have extra room to add some density by using the excess land set a side for road expansion since road expansion is not wanted by council.

 

[dunkalunk]

If TTC and Missisauga transit had the money, In addition to extending the subway along Bloor, I would recommend extending the subway north to Square One/Mississauga Transitway. The line would also intersect with the Cooksville GO station. This would help to spread out tranfers and provide an express line through central Mississauga.

If the tunnel were large enough, it could accommodate both the Hurontario/Main LRT and the subway extension in their own rights of way. Trains could also be interlined provided that the gauge is the same (or the tracks were dual gauge), there was passing track built at stations for express, and automated train control was in place, although whether or not interlining would allow high enough train frequency is another matter.

MAP

 

[doady]

I think the vast majority of Dundas St. riders aren't originating from Dundas St itself anyway, so people would just switch to Bloor St Subway, which would be closer to most people anyway (most Mississaugans live north of Dundas I'd say--and people in the south have the Lakeshore line anyway).

Bloor would take all the 3's ridership, plus a lot of riders from the 1/201 Dundas and the 26/76 Burnhamthorpe and even the 20 Rathburn. We should put the subway where the riders are, and Dundas is mostly commerical as you point out, and we'd have to rely on it to be redeveloped.

What are you saying??? Commercial areas are not suitable for transit? How do you explain the Financial District?

Dundas right now already has far more trip generators than Bloor. That's why it is busier. Bloor doesn't have the density now and it is not going to ever, since it will be difficult to redevelop.

You say: "We should put the subway where the riders are"

... then why are you suggesting building a subway along the corridor with less riders?

A corridor with buses coming every 4.5 minutes during rush hour, with half of them being artics, versus a corridor with buses coming every 8 minutes, none of them artics. You take your pick. Bloor does have pretty good service and ridership, but c'mon it is nothing compared to Dundas.

 

[wonderboy416]

What blows my mind is that the subway made it to Vaughn before Mississauga. I'd rather they complete the Sheppard line first, then take it out to Mississauga...

 

[Second_in_pie]

What are you saying??? Commercial areas are not suitable for transit? How do you explain the Financial District?

Dundas right now already has far more trip generators than Bloor. That's why it is busier. Bloor doesn't have the density now and it is not going to ever, since it will be difficult to redevelop.

You say: "We should put the subway where the riders are"

... then why are you suggesting building a subway along the corridor with less riders?

A corridor with buses coming every 4.5 minutes during rush hour, with half of them being artics, versus a corridor with buses coming every 8 minutes, none of them artics. You take your pick. Bloor does have pretty good service and ridership, but c'mon it is nothing compared to Dundas.

If you ask me, he's right on every one of those. As Mississauga city centre grows, Dundas is probably going to be redeveloped for bigger commercial buildings, and if there's a subway this will be wonderfully easy, and will attract people almost from everywhere in the GTA, which I'm not opposed to and I actually think would be great.

Again,

...so that it could be taken over by Mississauga Transit and extended further once demand is met across the entire line. The same should go for the Yonge expansion to Richmond Hill as well, but I think it is more important, as the Yonge extension is almost 100% going to happen.

 

[Amphibius]

I think the vast majority of Dundas St. riders aren't originating from Dundas St itself anyway, so people would just switch to Bloor St Subway, which would be closer to most people anyway (most Mississaugans live north of Dundas I'd say--and people in the south have the Lakeshore line anyway).

Bloor would take all the 3's ridership, plus a lot of riders from the 1/201 Dundas and the 26/76 Burnhamthorpe and even the 20 Rathburn. We should put the subway where the riders are, and Dundas is mostly commerical as you point out, and we'd have to rely on it to be redeveloped.

MT 3's not that significant a bus route though, plus it has more local stops per capita that would lost along Bloor St, forcing everyone living in-between stations to walk almost a kilometre in order to access the subway. Passengers from Burnhamthrope and especially those from along Dundas will not transfer onto such an ill-conceived alignment. They will stay on the bus til Kipling, defeating the whole purpose of this proposal.

I think a U-shaped alignment would be the best option, as such a routing has the capability to intersect all three corridors' bus feeders directly (Dundas; Bloor/Central Pkwy; and Burnhamthrope) plus serve an area of western Etobicoke that's already in the process of deindustrializing and welcoming in more and more residential-commercial type developments. We could even implement a direct interchange with the forthcoming Main-Hurontario LRT line where the line actually intersects Hurontario @Cooksville; thus not having to detour the LRT off that corridor to intercept CCTT (which gives up some of its feeder routes to the new bus/subway terminals throughout eastern Mississauga).

 

[khris]

What blows my mind is that the subway made it to Vaughn before Mississauga. I'd rather they complete the Sheppard line first, then take it out to Mississauga...

Trust me, you're not the only one that feels this way. Building a subway to a city that is more suburban, and only promises to become more commercial in the future over building a subway to a city that already has commercial is strange. I really think the amount of residential that is between MCC and Kipling is what causes the problem. What I think we'll see is Mississauga Transit build it's own subway in the future that will eventually connect to Kipling. I see that happening maybe 60 years from now or so.

 

[GTS]

I voted for the Sherway option. I don't think the subway should go any farther then that. From Sherway have a number of TTC buses and MT buses and maybe a spur line that leaves the future Sherway Station and wind it way to Mississauga City Centre/Square One area-like the SRT leaves Kennedy station and services Scarborough City Centre and Town Center.The reason that I favor this idea is because the first public TTC meeting I attended at City Hall 3 yrs ago, after moving here from Vancouver, I heard a councillor, I didn't catch his name, make this Sherway proposal. The more I think about it such an extension makes sense to me. Peel Region has over a million people and Mississauga itslef has over 700,000 people. Urban areas that populated in Europe almost always have some form of rapid transit infrastructure in place.I know the Sherway extension keeps the TTC within the 416 region but it is right next door to the large population of Mississauga via Dundas and other streets that this extension would serve the 905 well. As another bonus this extension would also clear up a lot of bus traffic around Islington and Bloor helping the movement of goods and services along that route.

 

[wonderboy416]

I wonder how Sherway would cope with the potential parking issues if the line stopped there? Yorkdale has much greater parking capacity. I guess patrol would be increased and lots of garages would need to be built? I also wonder if those commuting into the city would really prefer this to the GO train, for an extra few dollars they'd have a quicker train ride on something much more comfortable. One of the benefits of the subway going into the MCC would be for the reverse commuters and I don't see that happening much if it stopped at Sherway.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I wonder how Sherway would cope with the potential parking issues if the line stopped there? Yorkdale has much greater parking capacity. I guess patrol would be increased and lots of garages would need to be built? I also wonder if those commuting into the city would really prefer this to the GO train, for an extra few dollars they'd have a quicker train ride on something much more comfortable. One of the benefits of the subway going into the MCC would be for the reverse commuters and I don't see that happening much if it stopped at Sherway.

Reverse commuting is a rather good reason to extend the subway, if you ask me. Simply that it will help people get to their place of work in Mississauga from the surrounding are, but I really don't understand why so many people take the Subway when the Go train is just a tiny bit more expensive but much faster and comfortable... The same thing goes for people who ride down the Yonge line from Newmarket. There's a GO station right in Richmond Hill, but the Yonge subway is still packed full of people from all over York Region.

It makes me believe that GO needs a better fare system, something easier to integrate with other systems, and not as expensive.

 

[spaced]

I don't think the bloor line should be extended into Mississauga. I think it should go along the 427 (strategically, of course) to the airport and the future Egg LRT. In the distant future this line could then veer back east to downsview and eventually link up to the shepard subway. Regaurding Mississaga, I think they should develop they're own rapid transit solutions to the (then) multiple stations along the 427.