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dan e 1980
Guest
is the TTC still intrested in building new streetcar lines that are not in ROW's or are all future lines gonna be built only with ROW's?
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tplannerII
Guest
Basically only interested if a dedicated ROW can be constructed...may have to do some sections in mixed traffic (e.g. Kingston Road from Vic Park to Birchmount), at least in the interim.
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Suicidal Gingerbread Man
Guest
I'm curious to see if they do the St. Clair extension west of Gunn's Loop, and if so, will there be room for an ROW?
There's this stupid meat packing plant just west of Stockyards centre with a loading dock fronting the street. Its hideous, and the space required by the trucks back in has the result of limiting the width of St. Clair. Its only one lane heading East in that section. That section is really an eyesore. Its hard for me to admit it, but the Wal-Mart at St. Clair-Runnymede actually improves this dismal area.
I'd love to see improved streetcar transit all the way to Runnymede loop, or better yet, all the way to Jane-St. Clair, then South to Jane Station.
There's this stupid meat packing plant just west of Stockyards centre with a loading dock fronting the street. Its hideous, and the space required by the trucks back in has the result of limiting the width of St. Clair. Its only one lane heading East in that section. That section is really an eyesore. Its hard for me to admit it, but the Wal-Mart at St. Clair-Runnymede actually improves this dismal area.
I'd love to see improved streetcar transit all the way to Runnymede loop, or better yet, all the way to Jane-St. Clair, then South to Jane Station.
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Suicidal Gingerbread Man
Guest
I believe Jane is wide enough for an ROW South of St. Clair.
Also, despite the fact that an ROW is not possible on Dundas, there is talk about restoring the Junction streetcar as far as Runnymede loop, which would link w/ St. Clair.
Also, despite the fact that an ROW is not possible on Dundas, there is talk about restoring the Junction streetcar as far as Runnymede loop, which would link w/ St. Clair.
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Observer Walt
Guest
St. Clair, east of Keele, is an unusually wide street. Even so, as we know, there was very strong resistance to the ROW. Most streets (eg. Jane) are narrower and would not accommodate a ROW unless all parking and stopping on the street were banned. I don't expect to ever see a dedicated ROW on most streets in the central city. Kingston Road and the like, in the burbs, would be much more likely to accommodate them.
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dan e 1980
Guest
i just hope they still plan to put streetcars on roads that can't
use a dedicated ROW's because they're too narrow. it would be sad if these roads can't have streetcars because they can't have a ROW.
use a dedicated ROW's because they're too narrow. it would be sad if these roads can't have streetcars because they can't have a ROW.
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EnviroTO
Guest
They wont be creating new routes without most of the route being a dedicated ROW because the costs of the infrastructure and vehicles sitting in traffic means it is a waste of money. It is better to run cheap busses on a route with no ROW. Without an ROW a streetcar is more likely to find itself in a situation where the tracks are blocked by an accident where there is no way around or find itself in an accident with another vehicle. Even along Queens Quay where there is an ROW, cars can too easily drive on the ROW and there are multiple accidents throughout the year... especially in the summer months.
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dan e 1980
Guest
i wish they never would have taken the streetcar off of weston road. 
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markayca
Guest
One can still hope for a DRL reaching Weston... 50 years from now.
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drum118
Guest
It is my understanding that there will be an ROW running from Gunns Rd to Scarlett Rd on St Clair. There are plans to expropriate buildings and lands west of Symes Rd for the ROW. It will be most likely the south side that gets expropriate. The road is wide enough for an ROW east of Runnymede for it now.
If you look at the land along the south side of St Clair, there is a lot of empty land there not been use anymore.
The plans call for a loop on the west side of Runnymede and then Scarlett Rd for the time being, until the line gets extended to Kipling Station along Dundas which will be in mix traffic on Dundas.
It has been stated at TTC meeting that all future LRT’s routes are to be on roads that will support an ROW in the first place. When looking at some of the routes with high ridership, those roads are not wide enough for an ROW on parts of it and in some cases it not wide enough for the full route in the first place. TTC and the city may not like it, but some new routes will be in mix traffic.
The official plan shows some of the road where and ROW will be. Kingston Rd will be the next official new route east of Victoria Park in an ROW with the west portion in mix traffic and then follow by Eglinton. This may change either this month or next when the SRT report and recommendation is heard at TTC meeting.
If you look at the land along the south side of St Clair, there is a lot of empty land there not been use anymore.
The plans call for a loop on the west side of Runnymede and then Scarlett Rd for the time being, until the line gets extended to Kipling Station along Dundas which will be in mix traffic on Dundas.
It has been stated at TTC meeting that all future LRT’s routes are to be on roads that will support an ROW in the first place. When looking at some of the routes with high ridership, those roads are not wide enough for an ROW on parts of it and in some cases it not wide enough for the full route in the first place. TTC and the city may not like it, but some new routes will be in mix traffic.
The official plan shows some of the road where and ROW will be. Kingston Rd will be the next official new route east of Victoria Park in an ROW with the west portion in mix traffic and then follow by Eglinton. This may change either this month or next when the SRT report and recommendation is heard at TTC meeting.
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Suicidal Gingerbread Man
Guest
That, I can assure you, is not true unless they plan to evict the meat packing company just West of Stockyards Centre. As I have already said, there is only ONE eastbound lane in that stretch. Clearly not wide enough for an ROW.
As for West of Runnymede, you're right. There would be no problem. The Wal-Mart leaves enough space. There's basically nothing else between Runnymade and St. Clair that should stop them.
I have never heard anything about running a line as far as Kipling. That would seem logical. Dundas does get wide enough for an ROW as you get past the Humber River.
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green22
Guest
The original plan was for the streetcar to extend up to Runnymede and possibly south to the bus loop. The TTC evaluated various options a few years ago with the idea of linking to the busy Jane route. They have since expanded their focus to looking at possibly of going to Scarlett or even across into Etobicoke to Islington station. Moscoe is on record as advocating further extensions along the proposed transit right-of-way on Dundas W into Mississauga.
Like many right-of-way plans there are many challenges to overcome. The TTC said that it would perform an EA once the first section of r-o-w was finalized to guns loop. Not sure if they would define it as done as SOS could still appeal, even if their odds of winning are remote.
'The Wal-Mart leaves enough space'
The wide right-of-way was negotiated with Walmart in preparation for the r-o-w. The new underpass of Scarlett Rd. is also being reconfigured with eventual streetcar operation in mind. The avenues study of Dundas W also is keeping in mind an eventual extension. The EA for the extension and public consultations will decide the end point for the r-o-w. Generally the farther you go west, the less likelihood of being reached by the extension. It is very likely that the r-o-w will go atleast as far as the busy Jane route. After that,anyone's guess.
Francis Nunziata is pretty much against it in theory but she is a pretty disorganized opposition, and often changes her mind. The Etobicoke politicians (split by Dundas) on the other hand may give the extension a hard time as they do not think of transit riders as their voters. On the other hand the Dundas W area (around Prince Edward Ave) is pretty progressive in their ideas for the street.
I would still expect the businesses in the area, especially strip malls to come out as opposed. They are not as wealthy or powerful as the Corso Italia but the 2 councillors would be looking for an excuse to oppose the r-o-w and might even go out and organize on their own. Long way of saying-- Etobicoke extension might be a waste of energy unless a deal could be made with at least one councillor.
Like many right-of-way plans there are many challenges to overcome. The TTC said that it would perform an EA once the first section of r-o-w was finalized to guns loop. Not sure if they would define it as done as SOS could still appeal, even if their odds of winning are remote.
'The Wal-Mart leaves enough space'
The wide right-of-way was negotiated with Walmart in preparation for the r-o-w. The new underpass of Scarlett Rd. is also being reconfigured with eventual streetcar operation in mind. The avenues study of Dundas W also is keeping in mind an eventual extension. The EA for the extension and public consultations will decide the end point for the r-o-w. Generally the farther you go west, the less likelihood of being reached by the extension. It is very likely that the r-o-w will go atleast as far as the busy Jane route. After that,anyone's guess.
Francis Nunziata is pretty much against it in theory but she is a pretty disorganized opposition, and often changes her mind. The Etobicoke politicians (split by Dundas) on the other hand may give the extension a hard time as they do not think of transit riders as their voters. On the other hand the Dundas W area (around Prince Edward Ave) is pretty progressive in their ideas for the street.
I would still expect the businesses in the area, especially strip malls to come out as opposed. They are not as wealthy or powerful as the Corso Italia but the 2 councillors would be looking for an excuse to oppose the r-o-w and might even go out and organize on their own. Long way of saying-- Etobicoke extension might be a waste of energy unless a deal could be made with at least one councillor.
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drum118
Guest
As for Jane St, the road is not wide enough south of Dundas for an ROW. Rest of Jane is with a possibly of a small area up around Lawrence as well at St Clair.
The biggest problem for the ROW is the hills between St Clair and Weston Rd as they have more than a 5% grade. You will either have to build an elevated bridge or put a tunnel in this section. Also, the area at Eglinton Ave is in the flood zone and will require thicker tunnel walls.
One idea TTC had for St Clair ROW was running it as far as Jane and turn it north. Doing this make no sense, as the Jane riders want to go to the subway in the first place. Forcing riders to make a duel change does not help the riders in the first place.
As going west of Scarlett Rd, various routes come into play even with one going up Scarlett Rd to the Airport alone with what Green22 stated.
The biggest problem for the ROW is the hills between St Clair and Weston Rd as they have more than a 5% grade. You will either have to build an elevated bridge or put a tunnel in this section. Also, the area at Eglinton Ave is in the flood zone and will require thicker tunnel walls.
One idea TTC had for St Clair ROW was running it as far as Jane and turn it north. Doing this make no sense, as the Jane riders want to go to the subway in the first place. Forcing riders to make a duel change does not help the riders in the first place.
As going west of Scarlett Rd, various routes come into play even with one going up Scarlett Rd to the Airport alone with what Green22 stated.
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adma
Guest
Who says that hasn't been the game plan all along? It already looks forlorn and on borrowed time, like it's viewing an expropriation date square in the face...