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St. James Park Revitalization (PMA Landscape Architects)

daniel_kryz

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I still don't think it will do a hill of beans to stop the blight of problematic tagging. An issue that likely started when our ancestors learned how to paint on cave walls and what not. And marking seems to be an overall issue with the mammal line of vertebrates outside of that. So really, good luck with that.
I think most people understand where it is and isn't appropriate to draw graffiti. Wherever there are blank walls, I don't see much of a problem with graffiti if it improves aesthetics (not if it's just random gibberish). In this case, the person that did this probably did not care at all about the world around him (akin to people littering). It is so obvious that this wooden arc is not the right place to graffiti, and I'm sure most actual street artists would not do anything to this landmark.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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I think most people understand where it is and isn't appropriate to draw graffiti. Wherever there are blank walls, I don't see much of a problem with graffiti if it improves aesthetics (not if it's just random gibberish). In this case, the person that did this probably did not care at all about the world around him (akin to people littering). It is so obvious that this wooden arc is not the right place to graffiti, and I'm sure most actual street artists would not do anything to this landmark.
And if caught, then that person should still give account for their actions in the legal sense. Thus hopefully giving pause to this person's reckless and destructive actions.

That said, it is interesting to note that we see only the one offending tag on this installation. And if what isn't there is as important as what is, I think you are pretty much on the money with that assessment. So thank you for that. /bows
 

daniel_kryz

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That said, it is interesting to note that we see only the one offending tag on this installation. And if what isn't there is as important as what is, I think you are pretty much on the money with that assessment. So thank you for that. /bows
Exactly! There isn't that much vandalism here, and maybe that's due to the care put into this park. It really is outstanding! And when people are surrounded by places worth caring about, they are much less likely to vandalize or litter in that place. I think maybe that's why CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design) designs often attract crime (instead of preventing it, which is the point of CPTED)... because that design philosophy creates hostile places that people end up not caring about, thereby provoking carelessness and lowlifes to overtake the space. I think that if you design to create the most comfortable and inspiring places, there will be much less crime & vandalism... while providing significant social benefits (ex. improved mental health).
 

Northern Light

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......And when people are surrounded by places worth caring about, they are much less likely to vandalize or litter in that place.

100% the case. Interestingly has something of a relationship to the Broken Window theory as well though. It's not simply design, it's maintenance. Less litter attracts less litter; less tagging attracts less tagging.

That said, you can maintain a blank, boring wall all you like, it will attract more tagging than a wall with a mural, or decorative flourishes.

So it's both the aspiration of the space; and the maintenance of same.

I think maybe that's why CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design) designs often attract crime (instead of preventing it, which is the point of CPTED)... because that design philosophy creates hostile places that people end up not caring about, thereby provoking carelessness and lowlifes to overtake the space. I think that if you design to create the most comfortable and inspiring places, there will be much less crime & vandalism... while providing significant social benefits (ex. improved mental health).

CPTED has useful elements in it. It's not all back-less benches or hostile over-illumination.

The concept I often talk about of clear, well designed entrances; and of paths that have a sightline to where you expect people want to go; or where you want them to go, is both essential to a good park experience and CPTED.

The CPTED aspect is that is it

a) animates the space with positive use of the space
b) provides people with a clear visual into the space (helps spot problems)
c) provides clear exit strategies for someone who might encounter a problem

Likewise, planning a space to hold up to its intended and likely use is a good maintenance practice; but it therefore also makes the space easier to keep attractive, and therefore able to attract desirable use; which in turn repels problematic use.

The failures of CPTED are those aimed at over-policing, overly prescriptive rules/non-acceptable uses; non-welcoming designs, and sterility etc.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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CPTED has useful elements in it. It's not all back-less benches or hostile over-illumination.

The concept I often talk about of clear, well designed entrances; and of paths that have a sightline to where you expect people want to go; or where you want them to go, is both essential to a good
park experience and CPTED.

The CPTED aspect is that is it

a) animates the space with positive use of the space
b) provides people with a clear visual into the space (helps spot problems)
c) provides clear exit strategies for someone who might encounter a problem

Likewise, planning a space to hold up to its intended and likely use is a good maintenance practice; but it therefore also makes the space easier to keep attractive, and therefore able to attract desirable use; which in turn repels problematic use.

The failures of CPTED are those aimed at over-policing, overly prescriptive rules/non-acceptable uses; non-welcoming designs, and sterility etc.
And once again, with my opinions on the matter are probably not making many friends here... >.<

...CPTED really should be discouraged as well. As most seem made with privilege in mind to solve complex social issues at oft the expense of everyone. While I can agree to graffiti and skateboard proofing...but not to discourage such behavior, but rather protect public assets from the wear and tear it causes - a different way of thinking that's less about the "us vs. them" mentality that comes up with this matter.
 

Northern Light

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And once again, with my opinions on the matter are probably not making many friends here... >.<

...CPTED really should be discouraged as well. As most seem made with privilege in mind to solve complex social issues at oft the expense of everyone. While I can agree to graffiti and skateboard proofing...but not to discourage such behavior, but rather protect public assets from the wear and tear it causes - a different way of thinking that's less about the "us vs. them" mentality that comes up with this matter.

I think I explained a nuanced opinion on elements of CPTED.

I don't endorsement some elements.

But one key tenet is park animation, which I do endorse.

Another is to avoid dead-ends with one exit (the way you came from); which I also endorse.
 

condovo

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Tagging’s gone without us becoming an anti-vandalism police state. Woohoo!

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Isotack

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The pearl clutching about the (unfortunate) symptoms of our city's poverty and drug use problem but no real urgency about dealing with the (very real and urgent) underlying causes is really unfortunate. Your post exemplifies it.
I hate being right.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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Despite the uneven shellacking effect, I'm surprised how well they removed that. You wouldn't know the tag was there unless someone told you.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

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Nevermind the tags everywhere else. We fixed one, and likely at great expense. How long 'til our little artist strikes again?
They fixed one because it was more contentious and problematic. Unless you are the one that values everything else tag'able as equal to this installation, then I don't know what say...

...other than it would be tortuous doing my business in a public washroom stall if I took that position. >.<
 

daniel_kryz

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I'm happy that they've done a good job with removing the graffiti! Still, I'll call the supervisor.
 
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afransen

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They fixed one because it was more contentious and problematic. Unless you are the one that values everything else tag'able as equal to this installation, then I don't know what say...

...other than it would be tortuous doing my business in a public washroom stall if I took that position. >.<
As a child, I was taught that there are consequences if I damage other people's property, including public property. Some people didn't get the memo. I'd like more effort to be done to see that they do. Repairing some of the damage at public expense isn't really addressing the root cause. Graffiti/tagging is really pathetic and self-centred.
 

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