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SmartTrack (Proposed)

sixrings

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Temporarily. Metrolinx has since discovered they can build out the GO line without removing the RT stations; which means you could still use the RT space for another use in the future.

Eglinton LRT is in the way now though as it's at the same depth as the subway. It would likely be much easier to extend Eglinton LRT into the corridor and replace part of the Eglinton East extension with the subway.

Might be cheaper to demolish SCC (station, mall, city offices, and condos) and rebuild the entire neighbourhood at Kennedy.
I've promoted the rebuild at Kennedy for years but no takers. Without a highway how do you expect it to be a city centre.
 

Rainforest

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IMO, John Tory should be blamed for watering down his SmartTrack plan, rather than for proposing it. The concept was sound, with the exception of Eglinton West heavy rail. The Eglinton West part reverted to LRT soon after Tory got elected.

The most ambitious implementation would incorporate the Relief Line, by constructing a new underground mainline tunnel under downtown, serving both the Relief Line tasks and the enhanced longer-range GO services.

Even a modest implementation would see a much more frequent rail service within 416, that would reduce the subway crowding and make quite a few trips faster.

Instead, we are getting a few more stations, but same frequency as would be provided by the provincial RER plan without any input from Tory.
 

ssiguy2

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I thought one of the key advantages of ST over RER was that ST was going to be a TTC fare. For the RER section that was part of ST, is that still the case? Will someone still be able to, for example, take RER from Weston or Oriole to downtown with a TTC fare like they were going to be able to do under ST?
 

robmausser

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I thought one of the key advantages of ST over RER was that ST was going to be a TTC fare. For the RER section that was part of ST, is that still the case? Will someone still be able to, for example, take RER from Weston or Oriole to downtown with a TTC fare like they were going to be able to do under ST?

It was supposed to be. I personally think that ALL RER within the Toronto border should be the same fare as TTC, or at least a very minimal extra "express transit' cost.

But thats something that turns out is more difficult to get the province to do than even building RER in the first place.
 

cplchanb

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It was supposed to be. I personally think that ALL RER within the Toronto border should be the same fare as TTC, or at least a very minimal extra "express transit' cost.

But thats something that turns out is more difficult to get the province to do than even building RER in the first place.
probably because the TTC fare itself is too low to sustain heavy rail operations. They should have a unified fare structure but hike the subway and heavy rail services to make it more
sustainable.
 

robmausser

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Yeah the 22 stations thing is a bit of a misnomer. There was never going to be 22 new stations with ST. The whole idea was to use as much of the existing GO network as possible.

Now, the plan has been whittled down for sure, theres no denying that, but that begs the question of why to misinform with this "22 new stations" falsehood if thats the case? Media be media.
 

salsa

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Yeah the 22 stations thing is a bit of a misnomer. There was never going to be 22 new stations with ST. The whole idea was to use as much of the existing GO network as possible.

Now, the plan has been whittled down for sure, theres no denying that, but that begs the question of why to misinform with this "22 new stations" falsehood if thats the case? Media be media.

Lol

211294



Sorry, but the reporter's recollection of his original promise was entirely correct.
 
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innsertnamehere

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View attachment 211294


Sorry, but the reporter was correct.
no, it hasn't gone from 22 to 4.

The original scheme had 8 stations that already existed (Unionville, Milliken, Agincourt, Kennedy, Scarborough, Danforth, Union, Bloor), which were planned to be upgraded. So the original scheme itself only proposed 14 *new* stations.

Of those 14 stations, 6-8 are still scheduled to be constructed, depending on whether or not Gerrard and Lawrence West get cut now with Fords scheme. And of the 6 stations that have been cut, 3 of them lie on the corridor of the Eglinton West LRT which now has a replacement scheme to provide much better transit service than what SmartTrack initially promised.
 

salsa

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no, it hasn't gone from 22 to 4.

The original scheme had 8 stations that already existed (Unionville, Milliken, Agincourt, Kennedy, Scarborough, Danforth, Union, Bloor), which were planned to be upgraded. So the original scheme itself only proposed 14 *new* stations.

Of those 14 stations, 6-8 are still scheduled to be constructed, depending on whether or not Gerrard and Lawrence West get cut now with Fords scheme. And of the 6 stations that have been cut, 3 of them lie on the corridor of the Eglinton West LRT which now has a replacement scheme to provide much better transit service than what SmartTrack initially promised.

That is true but I was addressing specifically the "22 stations", which is a "fabrication" not by the media but by the candidate himself.
 

mdrejhon

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Yeah the 22 stations thing is a bit of a misnomer. There was never going to be 22 new stations with ST. The whole idea was to use as much of the existing GO network as possible.

Now, the plan has been whittled down for sure, theres no denying that, but that begs the question of why to misinform with this "22 new stations" falsehood if thats the case? Media be media.
I think it's more of a decrease of 22 stations down to approximately ~18 or ~19(ish) stations when you consider the SmartTrack helped encourage GO to proceed with some elements to their GO Expansion Plan:

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Source: Page 19 of Metrolinx PDF GO Expansion Business Case

While the SmartTrack conversation was a bit of a political circus, it did get the conversation started for things like subway-style level boarding for future electric GO trains.

In addition to subway-style boarding for GO trains....
....The GO Expansion frequencies are upgraded at some stations (up to 12 trains per hour), with various stations getting 5 minute, 10 minute service (better than 15 minutes)

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I am not defending Tory but the SmartTrack exercise was useful to force a discussion on starting metro-league frequencies on the GO network.

These don't yet include the SmartTrack stations, but the upgraded GO frequencies were partially inspired by the SmartTrack conversations.

There is debate how much the SmartTrack exercise influenced this, but having metro frequency service & level boarding.... sounds a hell lot like SmartTrack in ways.

So there's either plausible deniability or some inspirational influence in GO Business Case (choose your favourite term).
 
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TheTigerMaster

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SCC is also a more central location than Kennedy/Eglinton.

SCC isn't a city centre. It's a shopping mall and bus terminal. Utterly ignorable if you're not using one of the bus routes that converges at that terminal.

Move SCC to Kennedy Eglinton. Far more accessible by transit with Line 2 + GO RER + ECRLT + EELRT there. It's also the densest region of Scarbrough. Eglinton East could very easily become the gateway to Downtown Scarborough.

SCC remains a failure that will never be as dense as even Humber Bay Shores. Eglinton and Kennedy could very well be the next NYCC.

Imagine having an area with three covering rapid transit lines, and deciding not to locate your downtown there. Crazy.
 

sixrings

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SCC isn't a city centre. It's a shopping mall and bus terminal. Utterly ignorable if you're not using one of the bus routes that converges at that terminal.

Move SCC to Kennedy Eglinton. Far more accessible by transit with Line 2 + GO RER + ECRLT + EELRT there. It's also the densest region of Scarbrough. Eglinton East could very easily become the gateway to Downtown Scarborough.

SCC remains a failure that will never be as dense as even Humber Bay Shores. Eglinton and Kennedy could very well be the next NYCC.

Imagine having an area with three covering rapid transit lines, and deciding not to locate your downtown there. Crazy.
But I like STC skating rink and YMCA. Very much like downtown Mississauga
 

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