Richard White
Senior Member
Anyone who had gone from Exhibition Station to Liberty Village can tell you that is is not the preferred option, especially when it is dark outside.
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Anyone who had gone from Exhibition Station to Liberty Village can tell you that is is not the preferred option, especially when it is dark outside.
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Frank the Tank
Those are all fair points but it's a better solution than Ontario Place which is far out of any transit connections besides driving. Downsview Park is a better alternative but still incredibly distant from the core and it's not a lively area in the slightest.
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Frank the Tank
What? So you're implying people are scared of the dark as another reason why a stadium in Liberty wouldn't work?
Richard White
Senior Member
No the connection is horrible and it is through a poorly lit industrial area. I've done the walk from exhibition go to Liberty Village and it is down, under, back up and down Atlantic Ave. Not fun after dark when that part of liberty village is abandoned. I can see a few safety concerns being raised.
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Frank the Tank
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Wow. I wonder how Chicago manages to deal with such an albatross in the middle of a dense part of town with a single subway connection. It MUST be traffic and transit hell.
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Frank the Tank
Umm that's why the idea would be to re-develop a lot of that area. You know, bars, restaurants, etc. Been through Liberty plenty of times and your claims of safety concerns are grossly exaggerated. Exhibition GO would require more expansion to the underground walkway but not like that's impossible to do.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
...or Fenway Park in Boston, which is a short walk to two MBTA Green Line stations. Oh, and the Green Line is an LRT line that happens to use North America's oldest subway tunnel.
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Wow. I wonder how Chicago manages to deal with such an albatross in the middle of a dense part of town with a single subway connection. It MUST be traffic and transit hell.
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Frank the Tank
I’ve been to both Wrigley and Fenway. Traffic and pedestrian flow is completely different for both. Liberty Village is traffic hell now without a major league stadium, and it’s a zoo after events at BMO and Lamport. Adding a 50,000 seat stadium there doesn’t make sense.
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Frank the Tank
Explain how they're completely different when Wrigley and Fenway have minimal transit options within their vicinity. Parking is limited in both locations and I know Fenway limits the amount of vehicles in the area on game days. I believe they do the same at Wrigley. I've only visited Wrigley but not during a game. If anything, LV's problem is that it allows too many vehicles into the area as I have seen after TFC games. Making the streets south of King more pedestrian friendly would be a good place to start. Other issues are the lack of space at Exhibition GO which again, could be improved with additional connections. Dufferin and King being the only main thoroughfares in the areas is a problem and perhaps another N-S connection under the rail corridor would improve movement in the area.
Saying that, no way would a 50,000 seat stadium be acceptable. Somewhere between 38,000 - 40,000 would be ideal. LV is a better option for relocation than Ontario Place or Downsview due to the potential ability of the venue to integrate into the existing street landscape and neighbourhood. The former are barren sites and would have incredible difficulty creating a lively street scene or neighbourhood beyond what would exist on game days. They're also less accessible than something more centrally located which poses its own set of potential attendance issues, especially during lean years. From what I've experienced at LV through TFC, that sort of liveliness already exists and can certainly be enhanced to an even greater degree.
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Wider streets for starters so larger capacity than LV. LV streets are already jammed on a regular basis when there are no events going on.
Fenway & Wrigley are old fields and the area has developed around them. Plunking a stadium into the middle of an existing residential neighbourhood would cause a huge uproar, and I expect it would be loudly opposed by area residents. They already complain loudly about the noise, property damage and garbage left behind after games. Adding 81 baseball games plus other events wouldn't go over well at all.
We can do better than putting an additional congestion-causing venue into the middle of an already congested area.
The Rogers Centre now can be barren on non game-days. I've been through there plenty of times when there's barely another person in site. Sure, a couple of streets over is busy, but the west side plaza and the area along Bremner can be quite empty and almost eerie. It's a stark contrast to when an event is happening but a great place to walk the dog.
Obviously, we're never going to agree on LV as a site. I'd prefer to leave it where it is, especially given the large public spaces that exist around it.
Fenway & Wrigley are old fields and the area has developed around them. Plunking a stadium into the middle of an existing residential neighbourhood would cause a huge uproar, and I expect it would be loudly opposed by area residents. They already complain loudly about the noise, property damage and garbage left behind after games. Adding 81 baseball games plus other events wouldn't go over well at all.
We can do better than putting an additional congestion-causing venue into the middle of an already congested area.
The Rogers Centre now can be barren on non game-days. I've been through there plenty of times when there's barely another person in site. Sure, a couple of streets over is busy, but the west side plaza and the area along Bremner can be quite empty and almost eerie. It's a stark contrast to when an event is happening but a great place to walk the dog.
Obviously, we're never going to agree on LV as a site. I'd prefer to leave it where it is, especially given the large public spaces that exist around it.
christiesplits
Senior Member
This is my prediction!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
People seem to have forgotten that there isn't a lot of cheap land available in Toronto, and I can't see the government giving a private entity highly accessible public land to put a new ballpark on and not get blowbacks (like the LV scenario - you are giving away city-owned Lamport so that Rogers - a much beloved corporation - can build a new ballpark, and then CLC will get to redevelop the Skydome - which was paid for mostly by the taxpayer - site? Somebody came up very short in this exchange). As to private lands - why would anyone want a ballpark for the same reason? It isn't much of a rent generator; and as a seasonal use I am not sure how attractive it is as a booster for ancillary retail/amenity uses - and it does eat up a lot of space. And where the land is cheap(er), it lacks accessibility and cachet. Like it or not, the current location serves the entire GTA easily - locating anywhere else is pretty much a risk in comparison.
In any case, I think the city really needs to work on improving Bremner - it is bit of a wasted opportunity at the moment, specially considering how intensely the MLS/ACC end worked. Like hire a decent landscape architect to completely redo this mishmash of nowhere spaces.from Olympic Park/Roundhouse westward.
AoD
In any case, I think the city really needs to work on improving Bremner - it is bit of a wasted opportunity at the moment, specially considering how intensely the MLS/ACC end worked. Like hire a decent landscape architect to completely redo this mishmash of nowhere spaces.from Olympic Park/Roundhouse westward.
AoD
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Frank the Tank
Street width is definitely a good point regarding pedestrian flows. Ditto the noise complaints. It does get pretty rowdy, especially after games so despite the cool location, the backlash would be a pretty big deterrent.
Rogers Centre and the surrounding area is drab on non-game days but I believe the renovation proposals, in whatever form they may take, will seek to address that with more amenities and entertainment options. Any internal renovations will undoubtedly make a huge difference in the game watching experience. These are only reddit posts from an unconfirmed source but both offer some potential insight to what might be brewing:
<div class="reddit-embed" data-embed-media="www.redditmedia.com" data-embed-parent="false" data-embed-live="false" data-embed-uuid="4e6d34a4-d5e6-4ec8-ac99-4a0d07484943" data-embed-created="2019-08-12T13:48:58.769Z"><a href=" ">Comment</a> from discussion <a href=" ">[City Hall Watcher] Blue Jays President Mark Shapiro registers as a lobbyist, meets with Councillor Joe Cressy about future of Rogers Centre</a>.</div><script async src="https://www.redditstatic.com/comment-embed.js"></script>
<div class="reddit-embed" data-embed-media="www.redditmedia.com" data-embed-parent="false" data-embed-live="false" data-embed-uuid="598e60b6-730d-483e-8e58-0389b4160033" data-embed-created="2019-08-12T13:49:28.417Z"><a href=" ">Comment</a> from discussion <a href=" ">[City Hall Watcher] Blue Jays President Mark Shapiro registers as a lobbyist, meets with Councillor Joe Cressy about future of Rogers Centre</a>.</div><script async src="https://www.redditstatic.com/comment-embed.js"></script>
Replacing and reorienting the entire 100 level bowl would be a huge improvement over the current layout. A transparent roof would be spectacular as well.
gabe
Senior Member
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Wow. I wonder how Chicago manages to deal with such an albatross in the middle of a dense part of town with a single subway connection. It MUST be traffic and transit hell.
I have been to Wrigley field many times, it is a traffic and transit hell on game days. I had to take a taxi back to my hotel as the lineups to get on the L were insane. Move the Rogers centre out of the downtown core and you will have the same problems.