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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Newearthling,

I just think it's a massive stretch to infer from Ford's comments, outrageous as they were, that he thinks his wife's only purpose is sex. This interpretation appeared to be based mostly on your preconceptions of how men perceive women, and little else.

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be a gay man making a similarly crude comment about his partner. This is something I've witnessed a couple of times. In that context, similar comments had everything to do with the perpetrator of such comments being an inconsiderate idiot, and very little to do with the 'objectification' of the opposite sex.

Women's sexuality and ability to express themselves sexually has been controlled by men for a long time.
As other people have stated more eloquently than I, neither of the women RF mentioned had the ability to control the narrative of the story about their sexuality,sexual expression, or their body parts.
RF did not mention his wife by name, did not say that she has many other lovely qualities etc. He only mentioned her in terms of her sexual availability to him. And then paraded her out in front of him for all to see.
Perhaps he doesn't only think of his wife as someone who is there for his sexual pleasure. But the way that he said it, and his actions afterwards, made it seem like that was the case, to me.
 
Could the mods set up an 'is Ford a bigot/theif/misogynist/drug user/liar/homophobe/puppy hater' thread for nfitz? It gets a little tiring having to go through this debate in each and every single thread relating to the mayor. These things are really only the worst and most base kind of speculation anyway, and bring the level/tone of discourse down.
I look forward to your apology.

It's people who were willing back in 2010 and 2011 to turn a blind eye to what Ford very clearly was that have lead us down this path. Time and time again so many people were willing to ignore Ford's racism, homophobia, misogny, lying, and drug use. We all knew about it before the election. And some people were still so utterly demented that they'd knowingly voted for him anyway.

Hopefully anyone who voted for Rob Ford last time, will have learned their lesson, and simply remember not to vote next time ...
 
Perhaps he doesn't only think of his wife as someone who is there for his sexual pleasure. But the way that he said it, and his actions afterwards, made it seem like that was the case, to me.

Even if he doesn't think and talk about her that way all the time, he did at that moment. "I'm not an asshole all the time" is not actually a good excuse for being an asshole.
 
Newearthling,

I just think it's a massive stretch to infer from Ford's comments, outrageous as they were, that he thinks his wife's only purpose is sex. This interpretation appeared to be based mostly on your preconceptions of how men perceive women, and little else.

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be a gay man making a similarly crude comment about his partner. This is something I've witnessed a couple of times. In that context, similar comments had everything to do with the perpetrator of such comments being an inconsiderate idiot, and very little to do with the 'objectification' of the opposite sex.

He is still a fundamental dogmatist, so not that outrageous.

The positive spin is that Robbie is sexually satisfied by Renata.
 
What is goin on in this thread? Can someone throw a rope of sanity out?

I'm counting on you Mayor Ford, don't disappoint. How are all those criminals treating you now brother?
 
Hi All. First time poster here - I've been lurking for the past couple weeks, fascinated by the Rob Ford Train Wreck.

I made a connection that I thought may be compelling, thought I'd share it:

Peter Kordas: sometimes driver for Mayor Ford, drives a bus at York University, once drove a TTC bus until he was canned for propositioning a young woman while on duty. http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha..._rob_ford_friends_who_sought_crack_video.html

Alana Kindree: Miss Toronto Tourism 2010, intern at Planet in Focus http://planetinfocus.org/about-us/interns/

...
Well she could have met him in 2011 at the Beaches Easter Parade. There's a YouTube video (was posted earlier in this thread), she was at the event as Miss Toronto Tourism and he was there in an official capacity. If he goes so far as to call her a "friend" rather than simply saying he didn't pay for her company, I'd think that night wasn't the first time he'd met her.

She could be a friend, a mistress, who knows? She has no criminal record, though, and it's maybe kind of sad that she's been branded a prostitute.
 
I look forward to your apology.

It's people who were willing back in 2010 and 2011 to turn a blind eye to what Ford very clearly was that have lead us down this path. Time and time again so many people were willing to ignore Ford's racism, homophobia, misogny, lying, and drug use. We all knew about it before the election. And some people were still so utterly demented that they'd knowingly voted for him anyway.

Hopefully anyone who voted for Rob Ford last time, will have learned their lesson, and simply remember not to vote next time ...

You need a major reality check. Most people had no idea who Rob Ford was before the last election. How do you know people were willing to turn a blind eye? Prove it? Do you think your average mother and father obsess over municipal politics like most people on this forum? These people have busy lives and don't have the time to sit around and watch council debates. Most people don't care about the boring details of council meetings and getting to know individual councillors; especially ones that don't represent their respective wards. That's not to say that people shouldn't research who they vote for. Many older voters also don't use computers and social networking; it's very likely that many never saw what a buffoon Ford was prior to becoming mayor.
 
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You need a major reality check. Most people had no idea who Rob Ford was before the last election. How do you know people were willing to turn a blind eye? Prove it? Do you think your average mother and father obsess over municipal politics like most people on this forum? These people have busy lives and don't have the time to sit around and watch council debates. Most people don't care about the boring details of council meetings and getting to know individual councillors; especially ones that don't represent their respective wards. That's not to say that people shouldn't research who they vote for. Many older voters also don't use computers and social networking; it's very likely that many never saw what a buffoon Ford was prior to becoming mayor.

Dude what are you talking about? For the entire year leading up to the election it was pounded over and over again by the papers about what he'd said about gays, about AIDS, about Asians, the Florida thing, the ACC thing... this wasn't about having to watch council meetings this was front page stuff for MONTHS. Anyone who claims they didn't know what kind of person he was is a liar.
 
Dude what are you talking about? For the entire year leading up to the election it was pounded over and over again by the papers about what he'd said about gays, about AIDS, about Asians, the Florida thing, the ACC thing... this wasn't about having to watch council meetings this was front page stuff for MONTHS. Anyone who claims they didn't know what kind of person he was is a liar.

+5000

Everything that is known about Ford now was, essentially, known about him then. He doesn't respect the rights of others (drunk driving, incoherent harassment of the couple at the ACC, rage filled rants in Council chambers). Anyone who doesn't respect the rights of others is a dangerous person. Ford supporters, however, couldn't see the writing on the wall because all they heard were the slogans: gravy, gravy, gravy. They heard the slogans and they saw red. They were manipulated like, uhhh, something that's easily manipulated.

Of course, the general public couldn't have fully predicted the train wreck he's become, but the warning signs were very clear.
 
Dude what are you talking about? For the entire year leading up to the election it was pounded over and over again by the papers about what he'd said about gays, about AIDS, about Asians, the Florida thing, the ACC thing... this wasn't about having to watch council meetings this was front page stuff for MONTHS. Anyone who claims they didn't know what kind of person he was is a liar.


1. I really doubt that most Torontonians care about issues/comments re AIDS, as most people have no familial/friend connection to that disease. All STDs are preventable when people remain monogamous; that is a cold, hard truth that most don't want to accept. If people stuck to one sexual partner, we wouldn't have STDs to begin with. It's difficult for people to feel sympathy for victims of a disease (AIDS) that is 100% preventable -- as opposed to something like cancer -- which can affect anyone. If you live a risky lifestyle, sometimes there are consequences to pay for those actions. The culture we live in shuns people that abstain from sex until marriage, but those individuals never have to worry about contracting STDs. I do feel great sympathy for someone like, Tom Fogerty, who got AIDS from a blood transfusion. I'm pretty sure that would be next to impossible nowadays. It is tragic for anyone to die from AIDS, but it doesn't have to happen. Be careful in your sexual lives, and you shouldn't have to fear anything. I think it's common sense that sleeping with people one doesn't know is not a good idea; but you're free to do whatever you want with your lives. And yes, I know that straight people can get AIDS too. In that sense, Rob was off with his remark. Though, if I'm not mistaken, most people with AIDS are gay men, no? Also remember, the suburbs aren't exactly a bastion for gay issues. They're not as socially integrated into the culture as they are downtown. I'd guess that many people in the burbs aren't even friends with a single gay person. I've lived my entire life in the suburbs and have only known 3 gay people. There's also a gay couple that live close to my house. I think most suburbanites equate gays with Pride, and thus are revolted and not interested in defending them. I doubt that the majority of straight people would feel alienated by gays if they actually got to know more of them; but this is where I think events like Pride are a hinderance to gays becoming more widely accepted. I would think that the lewdness just plays into the same stereotypes that people have been conditioned to believe, and it turns them off -- no different than atheists thinking that Christians are all archaic, fearful, insensitive bigots. The fact is that everyone believes in stereotypes; let's be objective. By nature, we tend to believe certain things that we've been told from a young age, and often we carry those beliefs -- right or wrong -- with us our entire lives. For the record, I think Rob Ford is a terrible person, with some very significant mental issues. I'm thankful that he and his brother will soon no longer be wasting our time with their stupid personal issues. But everyone knows that Rob has been criticized for some really petty, frivolous things that a left wing politician would be excused for. I can't imagine George Smitherman being given the same flack for saying that Asians work like dogs. Everyone should be held to the same standard of criticism.

2. Expanding on that sentiment -- his comment about Asians was meant as a compliment. Everyone knows this -- he just isn't a graceful, polished speaker, and thus was pounced on for speaking so bluntly. He was bullied for this -- which is kind of ironic, considering what a bully he is. Would it have been better if he said that some Asians are lazy as well? His comment was well meaning, but poorly phrased. People are too finicky about politically correct speech. Understand the fact that Rob is a straight talker, not an intellectual and he basically never says things in a fashionable manner. It's not like he was insulting Asians, by calling them bad drivers, etc. This was such an asinine issue to that was blown way out of proportion. I'm sure you all agree, but couldn't resist the urge to ridicule him for it. It's issues like this that helped him get elected. This was a perfect example of unfair media scrutiny. Many suburbanites don't trust the mainstream media because they know they're largely aligned with left wing favouritism.

3. For those who were aware of Ford's pot charge -- I'm sure that was peanuts compared to the alternative, George Smitherman's, lengthy drug phase -- which lasted for years and I'm sure consisted of far more dangerous chemicals than cannabis. Both candidates had drug issues, so what were voters supposed to do in that situation? Pot seems like a lesser of two evils compared to years of drug abuse (though with what we know about Ford now, he was possibly heavily into hard drugs at the same time Smitherman was).

4. The ACC incident might not have been as ingrained in the public's mind as you might think -- or maybe most people knew about it, but thought it was minor compared to all the scandals George Smitherman was connected to? No doubt Ford was wrong in this situation and deserved to be lambasted for actions.

I don't think any of those issues would prevent your average suburban voter from supporting Rob Ford. These may be significant for downtowners, but your values and standards aren't universally shared.
 
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The Keenan Wire:

"Even before this was all revealed in its fullness, council appeared to have had its moment of clarity. They voted to ask him to do the right thing, of course. But they also showed, all day long, in their laughter, and anger, and sadness, that they no longer fear this man.
Because that is the the element that has allowed his impulses to rule this city for so long. Fear. Fear of him and his brother, fear of their political machine, fear of offending the steadfast Ford Nation base. That fear has led us to this point. And seeing where we all are, the fear has evaporated. In 12-step meetings, you’ll often hear people say that the clarity of rock bottom comes from realizing your fear of continuing to allow your addiction to rule you is now greater than your fear of leaving it behind."

http://www.thegridto.com/blog-post/rob-fords-mayoralty-is-decadent-and-depraved/
 
1. I really doubt that most Torontonians care about issues/comments re AIDS, as most people have no familial/friend connection to that disease. All STDs are preventable when people remain monogamous; that is a cold, hard truth that most don't want to accept. If people stuck to one sexual partner, we wouldn't have STDs to begin with. It's difficult for people to feel sympathy for victims of a disease (AIDS) that is 100% preventable -- as opposed to something like cancer -- which can affect anyone. If you live a risky lifestyle, sometimes there are consequences to pay for those actions. The culture we live in shuns people that abstain from sex until marriage, but those individuals never have to worry about contracting STDs. I do feel great sympathy for someone like, Tom Fogerty, who got AIDS from a blood transfusion. I'm pretty sure that would be next to impossible nowadays. It is tragic for anyone to die from AIDS, but it doesn't have to happen. Be careful in your sexual lives, and you shouldn't have to fear anything. I think it's common sense that sleeping with people one doesn't know is not a good idea; but you're free to do whatever you want with your lives. And yes, I know that straight people can get AIDS too. In that sense, Rob was off with his remark. Though, if I'm not mistaken, most people with AIDS are gay men, no? Also remember, the suburbs aren't exactly a bastion for gay issues. They're not as socially integrated into the culture as they are downtown. I'd guess that many people in the burbs aren't even friends with a single gay person. I've lived my entire life in the suburbs and have only known 3 gay people. There's also a gay couple that live close to my house. I think most suburbanites equate gays with Pride, and thus are revolted and not interested in defending them. I doubt that the majority of straight people would feel alienated by gays if they actually got to know more of them; but this is where I think events like Pride are a hinderance to gays becoming more widely accepted. I would think that the lewdness just plays into the same stereotypes that people have been conditioned to believe, and it turns them off -- no different than atheists thinking that Christians are all archaic, fearful, insensitive bigots. The fact is that everyone believes in stereotypes; let's be objective. By nature, we tend to believe certain things that we've been told from a young age, and often we carry those beliefs -- right or wrong -- with us our entire lives. For the record, I think Rob Ford is a terrible person, with some very significant mental issues. I'm thankful that he and his brother will soon no longer be wasting our time with their stupid personal issues. But everyone knows that Rob has been criticized for some really petty, frivolous things that a left wing politician would be excused for. I can't imagine George Smitherman being given the same flack for saying that Asians work like dogs. Everyone should be held to the same standard of criticism.

2. Expanding on that sentiment -- his comment about Asians was meant as a compliment. Everyone knows this -- he just isn't a graceful, polished speaker, and thus was pounced on for speaking so bluntly. He was bullied for this -- which is kind of ironic, considering what a bully he is. Would it have been better if he said that some Asians are lazy as well? His comment was well meaning, but poorly phrased. People are too finicky about politically correct speech. Understand the fact that Rob is a straight talker, not an intellectual and he basically never says things in a fashionable manner. It's not like he was insulting Asians, by calling them bad drivers, etc. This was such an asinine issue to that was blown way out of proportion. I'm sure you all agree, but couldn't resist the urge to ridicule him for it. It's issues like this that helped him get elected. This was a perfect example of unfair media scrutiny. Many suburbanites don't trust the mainstream media because they know they're largely aligned with left wing favouritism.

3. For those who were aware of Ford's pot charge -- I'm sure that was peanuts compared to the alternative, George Smitherman's, lengthy drug phase -- which lasted for years and I'm sure consisted of far more dangerous chemicals than cannabis. Both candidates had drug issues, so what were voters supposed to do in that situation? Pot seems like a lesser of two evils compared to years of drug abuse (though with what we know about Ford now, he was possibly heavily into hard drugs at the same time Smitherman was).

4. The ACC incident might not have been as ingrained in the public's mind as you might think -- or maybe most people knew about it, but thought it was minor compared to all the scandals George Smitherman was connected to? No doubt Ford was wrong in this situation and deserved to be lambasted for actions.

I don't think any of those issues would prevent your average suburban voter from supporting Rob Ford. These may be significant for downtowners, but your values and standards aren't universally shared.

Many cancers are preventable through behavior modification. So is the heart disease and diabetes that the Mayor will undoubtedly suffer from in the future. I suppose people who suffer from any of those things don't deserve sympathy either because they can be 100% preventable too!

Big difference between Smitherman (and you really have no idea what he may have taken recreationally) and Ford is Smitherman did not become Mayor of the nation's largest city, smoke crack with thugs, behave like a thug and consort with thugs and proceed to turn the city into (an albeit entertaining) daily media circus.

His comment about Asians whether he means it as a compliment speaks to a larger issue of stereotyping and leaves many people wondering what he thinks about blacks, gays, women and other assorted non white male middle aged men. He's the mayor of all people of Toronto not just the zaftig white male contingent.
 
My theory is that none of this circus is by accident. Some PR firm from the US might be behind it.

You're giving Mayor Bumble-f$$k way too much credit. When PR firms are coming out saying what you're doing is the absolute worst thing, it's doubtful that it's a calculated move.

I think the problem is there's a LOT of hubris in that family. Doug Ford Sr's 1-term-back-bencher-who-couldn't-get-reelected political history, and a few family friends in politics (Doug Holiday, Jim Flaherty) has given them the belief that they know all there is to know about politics and political strategy. Case in point, Ford's Conflict of Interest case, where he claimed he didm;t read the manual for his job (4 times no less), because his dad was in politics.

This is made obvious with the show he's putting and now he's getting his own TV show.


Sun News Network only wants him because:

a) There's big crossover in the Ford Nation/everything-is-a-leftist-conspiracy groups, and

b) They're trying to boost ratings after the announcement that cable may go completely a-la-carte. They've been trying to get must-carry status (and failed), so that dismal ratings wouldn't reflect as badly on the bottom line as they'd likely be offered in "news" bundles and get some income regardless of viewership. They're bleeding money like mad, and Quebecor has been *very* close several times to cutting their losses and shutting them down.
 
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