Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Deadpool X]

401 has at least 14 lanes for almost its entire length in Toronto and it is still congested. Right outside GTA, it is 6 lane with free flowing traffic. That gives an idea that most of the traffic is generate from within.

 

[innsertnamehere]

401 has at least 14 lanes for almost its entire length in Toronto and it is still congested. Right outside GTA, it is 6 lane with free flowing traffic. That gives an idea that most of the traffic is generate from within.

A highway around Brampton however would direct a lot of that central traffic. People going from Burlington to Vaughan today take the 403 then 401 to the 400.. Perhaps in the future they would take the 403 to the 407 for a short stretch (reasonable enough fee) to the 413 then turn south down the 400 into Vaughan.

That's a sort of intracity trip that bypasses facilitate.

I know that for many coming from the west end of the GTA or further would appreciate a highway that better bypasses Toronto to get them to points further north.

 

[amnesiajune]

401 has at least 14 lanes for almost its entire length in Toronto and it is still congested. Right outside GTA, it is 6 lane with free flowing traffic. That gives an idea that most of the traffic is generate from within.

That should be pretty obvious. Most car traffic is people going to/from their work, and most truck traffic is deliveries to/from Toronto businesses.

Montreal is a smaller urban area than Toronto and they've got an extensive network of highways - four east-west and four north-south freeways (440, 40, 720 and 132, 13, 15, 19 and 25), plus the A-30 and 640 bypasses. Toronto has a few north-south highways, but the 401 is the main east-west highway. The Gardiner gets you halfway, and the 407 is there but the super-high tolls keep it from being used to its capacity.

 

[Steve X]

That should be pretty obvious. Most car traffic is people going to/from their work, and most truck traffic is deliveries to/from Toronto businesses.

Montreal is a smaller urban area than Toronto and they've got an extensive network of highways - four east-west and four north-south freeways (440, 40, 720 and 132, 13, 15, 19 and 25), plus the A-30 and 640 bypasses. Toronto has a few north-south highways, but the 401 is the main east-west highway. The Gardiner gets you halfway, and the 407 is there but the super-high tolls keep it from being used to its capacity.

Montreal like many major cities are geographically located in a better position than Toronto. The core is in the middle allowing highways and transit lines to be constructed north and south of the core. In Montreal's case, they are about to build the A30 as a full city bypass while the A440 and A640 are northern semi-bypasses. They could technically build the A640 to connect to the A40 to form a complete bypass. Toronto does not have the option to build a route south of the city. It's just not possible for Toronto to have a bigger network than Montreal.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Montreal is also basically just as if not more congested than Toronto when you take into account that it’s less than 2/3rds the size. Their freeway network is mostly 6 lane freeways with substandard interchanges.. their highways have very small capacities compared to Toronto’s, even if they have more of them.

 

[nfitz]

Montreal is also basically just as if not more congested than Toronto when you take into account that it’s less than 2/3rds the size. Their freeway network is mostly 6 lane freeways with substandard interchanges.. their highway’s have very small capacities compared to Toronto’s, even if they have more of them.

Though they aren't doing badly per capita ... but they certainly don't have any 14-lane expressways there - there's little that is more than 6 lanes.

And wow ... driving there a couple of weeks ago, the ride is very rough. Even the Metropolitan which isn't that many years since it's last rebuild, is in need of a new surface.

 

[Translude15]

Though they aren't doing badly per capita ... but they certainly don't have any 14-lane expressways there - there's little that is more than 6 lanes.

And wow ... driving there a couple of weeks ago, the ride is very rough. Even the Metropolitan which isn't that many years since it's last rebuild, is in need of a new surface.

I've always felt Montreal's freeway network is more similar to NYC's than Toronto's. Both are typically 6 lane expressways and you've got the centralized island dynamic going on.

Save for the Gardiner and DVP, our freeway system is much more LA-Southern California-esque in terms of design and capacity. Ditto the HOV lane additions.

As for the 407, I'd be interested to see what kind of traffic volume increase would occur proportional to toll rate reductions. Halving the existing toll rates would make it much more manageable for commuters but what would be the end result traffic-wise?

 

[nfitz]

As for the 407, I'd be interested to see what kind of traffic volume increase would occur proportional to toll rate reductions. Halving the existing toll rates would make it much more manageable for commuters but what would be the end result traffic-wise?

It would certainly make for a slower commute. The 407 moves very well in rush-hour - and great for long drive around Toronto. I'd imagine it would be much slower with significantly lower tolls.

 

[Johnny Au]

I've always felt Montreal's freeway network is more similar to NYC's than Toronto's.

... and both Montreal and Manhattan are heavily urbanized islands. Much of Toronto is on the mainland.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Much of Toronto is on the mainland.

That's a huge understatement.

 

[ShonTron]

The preferred option for Highway 401 through Belleville is now available. The roll plan [PDF] is here.

All three Belleville interchanges will get major upgrades. Wallbridge-Loyalist Road will see its existing AB2 parclo interchange replaced with a larger AB3 parclo interchange (a new on-ramp to 401 East from northbound W-L Road). The cloverleaf (the last of its type on 400-series highways!) at Highway 62 will be replaced by a AB2 with traffic signals (I'm surprised to see such low capacity on the off-ramps). Highway 37 will be realigned to the east with a new interchange.

There's provision for a fourth interchange, east of Highway 37.

All the bridges will be replaced for six-laning the 401, and there's potential for new multi-use paths at most crossings. I'm hopeful they connect to Belleville's Moira River path, which is quite good.

 

[BurlOak]

The preferred option for Highway 401 through Belleville is now available. The roll plan [PDF] is here.

All three Belleville interchanges will get major upgrades. Wallbridge-Loyalist Road will see its existing AB2 parclo interchange replaced with a larger AB3 parclo interchange (a new on-ramp to 401 East from northbound W-L Road). The cloverleaf (the last of its type on 400-series highways!) at Highway 62 will be replaced by a AB2 with traffic signals (I'm surprised to see such low capacity on the off-ramps). Highway 37 will be realigned to the east with a new interchange.

There's provision for a fourth interchange, east of Highway 37.

All the bridges will be replaced for six-laning the 401, and there's potential for new multi-use paths at most crossings. I'm hopeful they connect to Belleville's Moira River path, which is quite good.

I believe they are twinning the Norris Whitney Bridge over the Bay of Quinte. I'd abandon highway 62 through Belleville, which is entirely or mostly a Connecting Link anyway, and have the short portions of Wallbridge Loyalist Road and old Highway 2 renamed as highway 62.

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[nfitz]

Is there any timing for starting the six-laning again? It ends near Cobourg currently (other than the section through Kingston which has higher usage). Extending to Belleville would add another 70 km! As far as I remember, they were still 6-laning through Bowmanville in the 1970s ... let's say 68 km in 40 years (can't quite remember if was closer to 1975 or 1979 ... so many roadtrips that way living in Kingston!). At that rate, I never thought I'd see it all the way to Kingston in my lifetime ... which is probably another 65 km past Belleville. (on track for about the year 2100 at the rate they've been going since the 1970s).

 

[Steve X]

Is there any timing for starting the six-laning again? It ends near Cobourg currently (other than the section through Kingston which has higher usage). Extending to Belleville would add another 70 km! As far as I remember, they were still 6-laning through Bowmanville in the 1970s ... let's say 68 km in 40 years (can't quite remember if was closer to 1975 or 1979 ... so many roadtrips that way living in Kingston!). At that rate, I never thought I'd see it all the way to Kingston in my lifetime ... which is probably another 65 km past Belleville. (on track for about the year 2100 at the rate they've been going since the 1970s).

More likely we'll see them widen only the section within Belleville within the foreseeable future. They may never widen the entire 401 to 6 lanes before cars are replaced with something better.

 

[Haljackey]

Note that there is another cloverleaf in Ontario. The 401-4 junction in London.

Although it too might get rebuilt in the next few years

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