News   May 07, 2021
 220     0 
News   May 07, 2021
 279     0 
News   May 07, 2021
 972     2 

Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413—Guelph to 400

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
3,502
Reaction score
4,093
Location
Toronto
Who says that developers donated to the PCs contingent on this project? That's my initial point.
It remains to be determined but given Ontario politics, news often starts to leak once a project is well underway. I expect the same to happen in this case as well once construction is underway.

If the PCs had promised to kill the highway they more than likely would have still received exactly the same amount of donations. Which is actually relatively little as its limited on how much per person can be donated.
I highly doubt that; there are various potential benefactors of any given major infrastructure project which spans many kilometres. If you maintain the status quo, there are much fewer potential private benefactors.

Correlation is absolutely not causation. And absolutely every policy change related to housing or infrastructure in this province the PCs seem to make people accuse them of corruption because developers donated to them. Just because many of the two parties interests align does not mean that they are in cahoots.
The reason why they get accused of corruption is because their actions make it resemble exactly that: they withhold information, give ridiculous explanations which dont explain their decision making process/rational, misuse legislation to exert force on "insert X, Y, or Z", etc..
 

ARG1

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
838
Reaction score
2,111
Location
North Toronto
With the support of 40.5% of the electorate, which is not a majority. (yes, this would apply to most other 'majority' governments, irrespective of party, and I'm consistent in my disdain for the FPTP electoral system.)
The entire point of FPTP is that its just about population representation as it is about geographic representation, and the vast majority of people representing the largest diversity in terms of regions voted for him.
The Globe and Mail priced it at 6 Billion as I recall.

The debt will still be incurred by the province; and it comes with ongoing and future maintenance costs.
I find that number funny. The Highway 407 East project with 5 highway to highway interchanges, 78km long, and mostly running through Greenfield cost around 2 Billion. Highway 413 will be ~50km long, also runs through greenfields, only has 4 highway to highway interchanges, yet is predicted to cost 3x as much? If that projected cost is true, then we should be asking where that extra 4 billion came from.
 

TheTigerMaster

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
12,962
Reaction score
5,917
Location
Best Toronto
Why does this as of yet unpriced but likely ~$3-5 billion project "adversely effect provincial finances" but the $30 billion Toronto subway expansion program go without scrutiny? Especially considering this project would very well self-finance itself with tolls?

I'm not as concerned with the SSE and YNSE, given that there are likely thousands of pages of public documentation on those two projects and potential alternatives. However the EWLRT and the Ontario Line should be heavily scrutinized.

Particularly with the EWLRT: Why was it fully tunnelled, when there was an abundance of space available for at-grade or elevated operations? Is there any technical justification for this project, or was it project a ministerial directive. I think we all know the answer, but these should not be secrets.
 
Last edited:

ARG1

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
838
Reaction score
2,111
Location
North Toronto
I'm not as concerned with the SSE and YNSE, given that there are likely thousands of pages of public documentation on those two projects and potential alternatives. However the EWLRT and the Ontario Line should be heavily scrutinized.

Particularly with the EWLRT: Why was it fully tunnelled, when there was an abundance of space available for at-grade or elevated operations? Is there any technical justification for this project, or was it project a ministerial directive. I think we all know the answer, but these should not be secrets.
The issue is that none of these points are exactly objective. I personally believe that the at grade option for Eglinton West is the absolute worst option they could choose, but that doesn't stop pro LRT city planners from publishing garbage like this:
1614124482707.png

An argument for Eglinton West being underground could be that detailed plan for an underground Eglinton West alignment already existed before Doug Ford got into power, meanwhile a fully elevated alignment did not, so Doug Ford chose the fully underground alignment because its not at grade, and because its the option that's the furthest along and would require minimal engineering work in his push to get shovels into the ground as quickly as possible.

The point ultimately is that there is no objective "best option". If your goal is to build something as quickly and as cheaply as possible to use primarily as a development tool, rather than actually convenient transit, you're going to think LRT is the best option, but if you think not having to wait behind red lights, having a consistent train schedule with tight headways is important, and a swift and convenient experience is important, you're going to push for grade separated transit. No amount of study is going to alleviate these biases because the studies themselves will be biased to the priorities of the people in charge of running them. This is why in Toronto, a city that really wants LRT, studies about LRT alignments always paint them in a positive light, meanwhile in Montreal, studies on at grade transit treats them with a "get this stuff off my desk" attitude.
 

Haljackey

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
546
Reaction score
236
Location
London, Ontario
...I don't think Douggie really cares with Mississauga thinks. Cities; lower or upper tier, are pretty much powerless to influence the province at least by the book. Look at what his government did to to Toronto's council.

Sure you could get political and say the ridings here are more blue than TO but the point remains. I doubt this motion by Mississauga will have any impact on the project.
 

CaskoChan

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
171
Reaction score
255
Location
Caledon East
Absolutely hilarious.
The highway doesn't even go to Mississauga...


This is also hilarious.
 

Steve X

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
1,471
Absolutely hilarious.



This is also hilarious.
I wonder if they would oppose a 410 extension or highway 10 conversion to RIRO expressway to Orangeville.
 

ARG1

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
838
Reaction score
2,111
Location
North Toronto
the proposed 413 would dump cars and trucks into a massive 401/407/413 interchage, so why would Mississauga not get a say in this project?
because very few cars would then go to Mississauga. The majority of vehicles would go west, away from Mississauga, and a few might go south, which is on the western border of mississauga. Either way the highway basically completely bypasses Mississauga. If anything the complaint would be that the highway would divert too many potential customers away from mississauga by having less people go on the 401 or something, that's the most I can think of.
 

Steve X

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
1,471
the proposed 413 would dump cars and trucks into a massive 401/407/413 interchage, so why would Mississauga not get a say in this project?
Not if it is tolled like the 407. It might even relief the 401 if a third of the trucks can be diverted to the 413.

They should set the price very high for cars and low for trucks. The 407 is just outrages for trucks so they keep off that highway.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
11,702
Reaction score
18,588
Location
Toronto/EY
I must say, I find the tone of some posters here who think no one should have a say in the construction of this highway unless they live within 10 minutes of the proposed route a bit much.

Its fine to say you support the project; as it is fine for me to say that I do not.

But when the environment and quality of life implications and the costs are born by all of us in the GTA it is simply not reasonable that our collective input not be considered.

I'd also wager some of the pro-highway posters here would see little if any benefit from the highway; and in accordance w/their own preferences should have no say in its construction either.

Formal opposition has now been registered from Mississaga, Brampton, Orangeville, Halton Hills............and the Ontario Farmland Trust.

I hasten to add the Globe and Mail has asserted that expert evaluation shows an average commute savings of 30 seconds resulting from this new offering.

From the Globe and Mail editorial:

1614278711331.png


Link: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...ighway-413-is-a-6-billion-sprawl-accelerator/
 

Undead

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
907
Reaction score
1,553
Can we build a narrow four lane dual carriageway just for trucks? Make it free for trucks and very expensive for single occupant vehicles.
 

Top