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Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413—Guelph to 400

Wm Perkins Bull

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Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring forward a crucial piece of information for this discussion: The Region of Peel is forecasting a population in Caledon of approximately 300,000 in 2051.

Here is how they plan to accommodate said growth
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Don't worry, all of the land proposed to be developed is Prime Agriculture, I am sure nothing could go wrong with paving over some of the highest quality agricultural land in the country, especially given that the Prairies are expected to experience reduction in yields due to climate change
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source
 

lead82

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Pave it and they will come. Makes no sense to build this when there are much better use of funds, like say giving. trucks. easier and cheaper access to 407, which is sitting empty.
 

allengeorge

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Don't worry, all of the land proposed to be developed is Prime Agriculture, I am sure nothing could go wrong with paving over some of the highest quality agricultural land in the country,
This is why I completely oppose this development. The GTA had some of the best farmland in Canada. No longer. It’s all paved over, and once it’s gone it’s not coming back. We can’t eat houses, and greenhouses to grow food are dramatically more expensive.

I’d also be more sympathetic to us using the land for housing if we weren’t building the least-dense, least-sustainable form of housing possible - and then coupling it with the least efficient form of transportation possible. It’s truly a failure on our part.
 
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gweed123

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Perhaps we could pay for that using some type of toll.

Toll the express lanes on the 401 to help cover some of the cost of buying back the lease on the 407. That would significantly decrease the amount of time that would be required in order to "pay off" the buyback.
 

afransen

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Toll the express lanes on the 401 to help cover some of the cost of buying back the lease on the 407. That would significantly decrease the amount of time that would be required in order to "pay off" the buyback.
All 400 series highways should be tolled (at least in urban areas).

At this point, buying back the 407 is closing the doors after the horse has already bolted. If the idea is to reduce toll rates for the 407, that is basically just a public subsidy to use the highway.

It's probably worth pointing out that the 407 toll rates are astronomical compared to most global jurisdictions. Many are less than 20 cents per km (in CAD terms), sometimes much less.
 
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gweed123

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All 400 series highways should be tolled (at least in urban areas).

Agreed. I just think that tolling the express lanes of the 401 is a good first step, because you still have a free option right next to it.

At this point, buying back the 407 is closing the doors after the horse has already bolted. If the idea is to reduce toll rates for the 407, that is basically just a public subsidy to use the highway.

It's probably worth pointing out that the 407 toll rates are astronomical compared to most global jurisdictions. Many are less than 20 cents per km (in CAD terms), sometimes much less.

I guess it comes down to whether it's better to spend money to re-distribute demand across existing infrastructure, or to expand existing infrastructure. Personally, I'd rather lower the toll rates on the 407 to get more people on it (even if it means subsidizing it) than continually expand other free highways because they're at capacity. It just seems silly to me that we're spending so much money on highway expansion projects when a major highway that's already built isn't even at capacity.

In order to not spur induced demand though, I think the 401 express lanes would need to be tolled at the same rate as whatever the 407 is set at. That way, traffic would take whichever route is more convenient, not the one that best fits their budget.

Also, getting back to the topic of this thread, I would toll the 413 too, should it ever get built.
 

afransen

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I think tolling the other 400 series would help push some traffic to 407 as well, as there would then be less of a price delta. Of course, I would not anticipate the tolls on the other highways to be as high as 407. We should be setting the rates to maintain smooth flow at peak times, and no more than necessary off-peak to recover wear and tear. 5 cents per km as off-peak minimum is probably reasonable.


I assume it is a foregone conclusion that 413 would be tolled. I thought all new 400 series highways would be.
 

anb

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The only downside is that there’s gonna be a huge percentage of drivers filling up the streets in the whole gta parallel to the highways. Imagine all these streets filled up to highway levels

- Lakeshore Blvd/Queensway (King/Queen)/Dundas/Bloor/St Clair for the Gardiner
- Bayview/Don Mills for the DVP
- Highway 27/Weston/Jane for the 400
- Finch/Sheppard/Wilson/Lawerence/Eglinton for the 401 (Toronto)
- Derry/Britannia/Eglinton/(Kingston Rd/Highway 2)/(Bayly/Victoria)/(Steeles/Taunton)/Highway 7 for the 401 (GTA)
- Eglinton/Burnamthorpe for the 403 (Mississauga)
- Lakeshore Rd/Dundas for the QEW/403 (Halton) and QEW (Mississauga)
- (Don Mills/Leslie)/Bayview/Woodbine/Kennedy (Markham) for the 404
- Dixie/Kennedy (Brampton)/Highway 10/Bramalea for the 410
- Highway 27/Goreway/Airport Rd/Martin Grove for the 427

Now that’s a lot of roads and i know i’ve missed a lot but that’s the point, there’s always going to be some cheap people who are always going to find a way out of these tolls. I know the whole ‘toll all gta highways so we can buy back the 407 with the generated revenue’ plan sounds like a good one but this downside is basically recoil and a compromise for everyone
 

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