kali
Active Member
A 100m ROW wow
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Northern Light
Superstar
I see no reason to allow the 'no new transit infrastructure' problem to stand.
I'm perfectly open to using the corridor for freight/passenger rail, with the surplus land for parks/trails.
I would suggest that building that particular corridor out is low priority relative to many other potential GTA investments; and I would want to it ranked accordingly.
But in the future that would be fine.
Just no more 400-series highways!
kali
Active Member
^Yes, but what about the option I mentioned in my post - tolling the highway for SOVs to limit their volume and letting trucks use it for free to relieve the truck congestion at the 401-400 interchange? As I understand, one of the main priorities for the this highway is relieving truck congestion, not so much commuter driver traffic.
Agreed, but I'm just going by the reality of the last 20-30 years.
Agreed, but I'm just going by the reality of the last 20-30 years.
Northern Light
Superstar
How about we toll the 401 and the 400 first? Lets see how much space that frees up, including removing passenger cars to make room for trucks.
kali
Active Member
Only if the aforementioned shift to WFH occurs so we're not penalizing people for just driving to work.
Northern Light
Superstar
We 'penalize' people for taking the GO train to work by charging them a fare; likewise any local public transit.
Why should drivers be exempt?
Transit riders subsidize drivers.
That's illogical.
WFH is fine; but not a per-requisite to logical demand management and moving people more efficiently.
Haljackey
Active Member
Not everyone can afford tolls and transit isn't a viable option for many people.
This would never happen- there would be too much resistance. Also if it ever did, expect city streets to get even more congested by people wanting to avoid the tolls.
This highway would get long distance folks out of the 401 as well. If I want to get to Barrie from London/K-W/etc I'd use this highway rather than 401/400. No way I'm using the 407 lol.
rbt
Senior Member
That's exactly what the 401 was built for.
Northern Light
Superstar
Lets flip this shall we;
Not everyone can afford transit fares; so GO Trains and local transit must be free.
As long as your logic applies both ways, we can have a discussion on what's practical and affordable. Free transit, 1 point extra on the sales tax.
More or less sellable than tolls?
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Lets again flip this shall we?
We can never charge for transit or commuter rail, if we did, everyone would drive instead and congest the highways.
Steve X
Senior Member
The tolls on the highway should match the GO not some outrageous 407 cost. It'll be a luxury if anyone can afford those 407 tolls for long distance. Barrie to Toronto would cost $30 per trip. Something like $5-10 dollars should be enough to get people on the GO trains.
ARG1
Senior Member
As much as I disagree with his take on Highway Tolls, I'm not sure this is a great argument. When you take a bus somewhere, what you're paying for is a service fee of someone taking you somewhere. The same logic applies when you're on the train, your ticket doesn't just pay for the cost of the system, but it pays for the fuel (or electricity), the driver, and the logistics operation. On the other hand when you're driving, the only thing a toll pays for is the infrastructure. You're still paying for the fuel, the maintenance, and, well, you're the one driving so you're not paying for the driver. It's simply not comparable.
Northern Light
Superstar
I get what you're saying.........but
Infrastructure aside..............who pays for servicing all the car accidents? The emergency service response, the medical care (hospitals) etc?
Who pays for the pollution thrown off and its adverse effects on human health?
Who pays for the tax not generated by vast gobs of land consumed by public infrastructure? (railways take up a fraction of the space)
Also you are paying for street cleaning and snow plowing as well on a highway.
While in the case of railways you are also paying for infrastructure, not merely fuel consumption and staff.
robmausser
Senior Member
I dont agree with free transit nor free expressways. I think all should be minimally tolled. Like, 30 cents per ride for the TTC, $1 for GO, etc. More expensive road tolls but still reasonable, to promote transit use.
Why? I lived with roommates for 5 years in an apartment with no utilities. They would just leave water running non stop, crank the heat to 28 and open the windows, etc etc.
I believe small, but very affordable fees make people make smart choices. It gives the act of all transportation (including highways) a tangibility to the average person that its not a bottomless resource.
I think this should be done on the business side too though; tax businesses for mass transit, but give a rebate for every employee that works from home remote and doesnt commute.
Why? I lived with roommates for 5 years in an apartment with no utilities. They would just leave water running non stop, crank the heat to 28 and open the windows, etc etc.
I believe small, but very affordable fees make people make smart choices. It gives the act of all transportation (including highways) a tangibility to the average person that its not a bottomless resource.
I think this should be done on the business side too though; tax businesses for mass transit, but give a rebate for every employee that works from home remote and doesnt commute.
Haljackey
Active Member
Exactly. As an out-of-towner I'm still planning to use the 401 to get to places like Barrie, Ottawa, etc from London, Windsor, K-W, etc and vice-versa. Since Greater Toronto sprawled and started using the 401 as a commuting highway rather than a bypass, us long-distance travelers need another bypass. The 401 was designed for long distance traffic, not Toronto area locals commuting to and from work.
Just don't screw this one up with endless sprawl. Make it so that it's an actual bypass. And, if you charge as much as the 407, screw it I'd rather creep along the 401.
Any kind of trucking or delivery company will thank you as well.
anb
Active Member
We can all agree that there’s a few different types to the 401. There’s the Toronto proper 401, the West GTA 401, the East GTA 401, and the rest of the provincial highway 401. I don’t understand why the politicians don’t realize that not everyones destination is Toronto and some people need to use the highways as a thruway. Making this GTA west highway helps a lot. Even if it is a bit more up north, you could have it go from KW/Guelph or even the 401/407 interchange, to Highway 7/115 in Peterborough and you’ll see how much of a relief It takes off of the 401/QEW & Gardner/403. We have a combined population of every single type of driver all with different destinations, and driving different types of vehicles whether it takes up minimal space or roughly 2 meters like a truck, all live on the 401 even as we speak. All this talk shouldn’t happen just for one decision to be made and if im being honest, another new highway or two is a MUST for the GTA whether we like it or not. Transit is not an option for a driver who wants to go from let’s say cobourg to Detroit or from Barrie to Kingston for example, we have to consider these people as well. There’s a reason why a place like New York or LA has so many different highways and it’s all for different intentions and purposes. You could leave anytime during the day and take so many different options to avoid rush hour traffic. Toronto needs to have something like this