Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

[innsertnamehere]

407 is more underused in certain sections outside of direct peak. As it's "full" at rush hour, that means other times are much lower.

The nature of off peak times means that way fewer people are willing to use it in general since other highways offer similar travel times without the tolls.

 

[Neutrino]

^so what's the problem?

 

[Steve X]

^so what's the problem?

Taxpayer's money invested in infrastructure that only elites could use. The GTA west highway won't divert cars from the 401/400 but instead create a new market for those who can afford it.

 

[Neutrino]

^I'm no fan of the 407 or how it was sold for a pittance. But I don't think that statement is accurate. Most cars on the 407 are simple Civics and Chevy's, much like one would see in any average middle class neighborhood. Individual and family budgets are tight, but a few thousand a year in 407 bills hardly qualifies one as elite. Such unjustified hyperbole does nothing to move the discussion forward.

 

[Translude15]

^I'm no fan of the 407 or how it was sold for a pittance. But I don't think that statement is accurate. Most cars on the 407 are simple Civics and Chevy's, much like one would see in any average middle class neighborhood. Individual and family budgets are tight, but a few thousand a year in 407 bills hardly qualifies one as elite. Such unjustified hyperbole does nothing to move the discussion forward.

407 is certainly not for the elites. I've been stuck in gridlock on it a number of times but that's usually due to inclement weather more than anything. The traffic flow certainly does feel heavy even when it moves. That said, I believe it could shoulder more of the burden for truck traffic in the GTHA. GTA West will certainly help with that.

 

[11th]

407 is more underused in certain sections outside of direct peak. As it's "full" at rush hour, that means other times are much lower.

The nature of off peak times means that way fewer people are willing to use it in general since other highways offer similar travel times without the tolls.

Would be nice if the toll routes are near toll free during the night time road construction hours (10pm-5am). Good way to use up the extra capacity.

 

[Johnny Au]

It would be interesting if the new toll highway waived tolls for public transit vehicles, emergency vehicles, 100% electric vehicles with at least one passenger at all times, and 100% electric vehicles without passengers on off-peak (and weekends) (motorists driving 100% electric vehicles without passengers during peak times get a major discount instead).

 

[innsertnamehere]

407 already waives it for emergency services and public transit I believe.

 

[smallspy]

407 already waives it for emergency services and public transit I believe.

Not public transit. GO and YRT have to pay to access the highway.

Dan

 

[Johnny Au]

Not public transit. GO and YRT have to pay to access the highway.

Dan

Brampton Transit also has to pay for access to the 407.

 

[Transportfan]

Is Peel Region prepared for the increase in traffic on Mayfield? Almost everyone will find a way to avoid toll charges (including commercial vehicles).

MTO could build toll-free connecting auxiliary lanes in the ROW of 413 between 10 and 410 like what's being planned at 401 between the two legs of Hwy. 6.

 

[Jasmine18]

The issue with the 407 is not the tolls.

its billions of dollars that could have been used to build countless KM of subway lines since 1999...not make some guys in mexico rich.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191344076752408576

 

[Northern Light]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191344076752408576

I didn't know what emoticon to use, to describe my feelings about:

a) A transportation minister who doesn't know what induced demand is....

b) An M.O.T. management team that didn't think that was something she should know about in her first 4 months on the job

c)An M.O.T./consultant team who haven't bothered to factor in induced demand into their calculations for what would be necessary by way of highway capacity and what its knock-on effects would be on secondary infrastructure.

Shock? Anger? Sadness? All of the above?? Sigh

 

[innsertnamehere]

I didn't know what emoticon to use, to describe my feelings about:

a) A transportation minister who doesn't know what induced demand is....

b) An M.O.T. management team that didn't think that was something she should know about in her first 4 months on the job

c)An M.O.T./consultant team who haven't bothered to factor in induced demand into their calculations for what would be necessary by way of highway capacity and what its knock-on effects would be on secondary infrastructure.

Shock? Anger? Sadness? All of the above?? Sigh

induced demand is a deeply flawed concept anyway.

Yes, new infrastructure induces new use. Of course it does. It's no different than the Ontario line inducing 35,000 new daily transit riders than would exist without it.

Those new trips are new, more efficient economic generators however. Those trips have value. It's more "traffic" and not necessarily great for the environment, but it's better than doing nothing. Doing nothing will just strangle the economy. The whole idea behind induced demand is that a new trip is created because it becomes more economical to make that trip. Without the infrastructure, that trip would have been made in a more inefficient matter (say, public transit or on another road), or likely not at all. Creating more economical and effective transportation is literally the entire point of building infrastructure.

The concept is valuable to compare whether a road project could be more effective as a public transport project, but using it to invalidate absolutely any road project is a silly approach to infrastructure planning. It's a denial of the infrastructure requirements of a modern economy.

Induced sprawl and development has tools that can limit it, I'm not concerned about that.