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QEW Credit River Bridge threatened
- Thread starter adma
- Start date
crs1026
Senior Member
I'm usually a pretty staunch supporter of heritage preservation.....but..... I sure would not want to take chances on the life expectancy of a bridge on a highway as well travelled as the QEW.
Some things do wear out eventually.
- Paul
Some things do wear out eventually.
- Paul
adma
Superstar
Though considering that rehabilitation was already on the table and deemed feasible, this sounds more like a typical case of Ford gov't rock bottom utilitarianism a la Ontario Place.
Oh, and the element they're proposing "saving" --the ER lampposts--are already dummy replicas from an earlier rehabilitation. It's like, re Ontario Place, their suggesting the Bud Stage being the only element w/any present-day value.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Honestly i'm not one to care much for these heritage bridges.
Perhaps if its some massive suspension bridge, but even then, that type of scale is extremely expensive to maintain.
The Credit River bridge was utilitarian when it was built, and there are several examples of the same style along the QEW still. 16 mile creek in Oakville had the original bridge restored.
On another note, it amazes me how old some of MTO's freeway bridge structures are. Some of the bridges over the 401 in Oshawa date from the 1930's!
Perhaps if its some massive suspension bridge, but even then, that type of scale is extremely expensive to maintain.
The Credit River bridge was utilitarian when it was built, and there are several examples of the same style along the QEW still. 16 mile creek in Oakville had the original bridge restored.
On another note, it amazes me how old some of MTO's freeway bridge structures are. Some of the bridges over the 401 in Oshawa date from the 1930's!
ShonTron
Moderator
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Unlike say the Prince Edward Viaduct or the Rainbow Bridge, there's little to indicate that the bridge has heritage value. The arches are not visible to most people: that part of the Credit River is lined by private property, not parkland and trails.
Most of the great truss bridges in Northern Ontario have disappeared over the years, including the Highway 69 bridges over Moon River and Pickerel River. (Hopefully the French River bridge will remain once the bypass is complete).
The MTO has done a fine job restoring the architectural flourishes on the Henley Bridge in St. Catharines as well. This one can go.
Most of the great truss bridges in Northern Ontario have disappeared over the years, including the Highway 69 bridges over Moon River and Pickerel River. (Hopefully the French River bridge will remain once the bypass is complete).
The MTO has done a fine job restoring the architectural flourishes on the Henley Bridge in St. Catharines as well. This one can go.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Build a replacement in a similiar style - longer timeframe and perhaps cost, but problem solved.
AoD
AoD
Tuscani01
Senior Member
I'd rather see the bridge preserved and the QEW not widened. Spend that money on improving GO instead.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I would warn against this. MTO's "similar style" bridges have left.. a lot to be desired.
Line 5 in Bradford for example:
Original. Curved single span structure with ornamental detailing including the crown's coat of arms and curved railings on top.
New. Coat of arms is essentially the only part that is done well. there is useless curved concrete portions in the corners to imitate the original, and no acknowledgement of the original railing.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
To be fair, I wouldn't even bother with faking it with the example you've cited. On the other hand, the arches for the Credit River bridge are structural - you can't just fake it like they did here.
AoD
crs1026
Senior Member
^The coats of arms on those old bridges are so eroded that I don't see the value in preserving them. There is plenty of photographic material archived so they will not be forgotten.
I'm not sure that we want our highway system to be preserved in an original form. We preserve lots of railway heritage, but we don't pull GO trains with steam locomotives just to keep the heritage alive. The functioning highway will require renewal and see upgrading, and heritage may not take priority. (Will the spaghetti junctions built in the 1970's one day become heritage structures? There are as definitive of that era as art deco and arches were of the earlier era).
I understand the skepticism.....One does wonder how an approved plan to life-extend the bridge for up to 75 years suddenly became too expensive to justify. I suspect the new government is indeed looking at costs differently. Perhaps the original plan (ie restoration) was a bit extravagant, or money was easier to come by a few years ago. I'm not opposed to taking a more critical look at spending, so long as the pendulum doesn't get pushed all the way over. A highway bridge doesn't feel like a hill for the heritage community to die on, especially if its aesthetic value (the underside) is not publicly accessible.
- Paul
I'm not sure that we want our highway system to be preserved in an original form. We preserve lots of railway heritage, but we don't pull GO trains with steam locomotives just to keep the heritage alive. The functioning highway will require renewal and see upgrading, and heritage may not take priority. (Will the spaghetti junctions built in the 1970's one day become heritage structures? There are as definitive of that era as art deco and arches were of the earlier era).
I understand the skepticism.....One does wonder how an approved plan to life-extend the bridge for up to 75 years suddenly became too expensive to justify. I suspect the new government is indeed looking at costs differently. Perhaps the original plan (ie restoration) was a bit extravagant, or money was easier to come by a few years ago. I'm not opposed to taking a more critical look at spending, so long as the pendulum doesn't get pushed all the way over. A highway bridge doesn't feel like a hill for the heritage community to die on, especially if its aesthetic value (the underside) is not publicly accessible.
- Paul
lenaitch
Senior Member
Seems reasonable. If the rehab cost approximates building new (including timelines) then it seems money well spent.
I actually don't mind the coats of arms in the new Hwy 400 bridges. I can't imaging the cost of a concrete forming stamp being that significant and it does maintain some character to otherwise utilitarian public infrastructure.
Sometimes new doesn't always go as planned (first Nipgon River replacement bridge). And sometimes they can build new while retaining the character of the original:
Sioux Narrows Bridge - Wikipedia
44 North
Senior Member
Should be preserved, or at the very least replicated. It's probably one of the nicest structures in all of Peel Region, perhaps tied with Absolute World.
adma
Superstar
adma
Superstar
Re the report here: interesting emphasis upon "efficiencies gained".
Maybe that's what's really at issue here: the utter mundaneness of the replacement, and the utterly utilitarian mentality behind the project, and how it encapsulates a Ford-regime modus operandi...
Maybe that's what's really at issue here: the utter mundaneness of the replacement, and the utterly utilitarian mentality behind the project, and how it encapsulates a Ford-regime modus operandi...
crs1026
Senior Member
^Ah......it’s a P3..
.”.....maximises transference of design/construction risk to the private sector.....”
Translation - somebody offered an attractive fixed price bid on a new bridge.
- Paul
.”.....maximises transference of design/construction risk to the private sector.....”
Translation - somebody offered an attractive fixed price bid on a new bridge.
- Paul