Public transit in the GTA

[BMO]

Do you think public transit in the GTA is going in the right directoin overall, or do you think it is just as bad as ever or worse?

 

[W. K. Lis]

It seems to be going in the right direction, but there are the suburbanites, NIMBY's and car-lovers would are fighting against transit and transit-oriented development.

 

[doady]

The basic problems of transit the GTA - overcrowding (especially on the subways) and lack of regional coordination - are still not being addressed at all.

If Toronto were not so obsessed of LRT and was willing to build subways, the capacity and regional connections would be better (and it would be nice if the bus system served major destinations in the 905 as well, like Westwood Mall). Instead, there are building LRT lines that will completely ignore regional needs, not serve major nodes, increase the strain on the subway system, prevent future subway expansion, and force pointless transfers.

On the other hand, the 905 won't even consider LRT at all. 905 systems are under this delusion that fancy express buses can actually increase ridership, despite the failure of VIVA.

And then there is GO, which continues to expand its service around new parking lots and continues to use crazy fare system that punishes riders for using local transit.

So, no, I don't think that transit in the GTA is improving at all.

 

[PukeGreen]

Maybe I would say that transit is improving slowly, while vehicular traffic congestion is degrading quickly.

Transit is improving, but many people seem to be too busy complaining about it to notice. Vehicles have been added to many routes and the running times extended over the past year, but this received little fanfare. There are numerous large scale expansions coming down the pipe (Shepard LRT, etc.) that will eventually see light of day unless disaster strikes.

The TTC is not perfect and I've had my share of bad experiences, but I've also had my share of bad experiences stuck on our highways. I'd say that over the past 5 years or so there has been a wider understand of the importance of public transit. Even those who primarily drive understand that when others take transit, congestion as a whole improves. But right now we are at the cusp: how much of the talk will translate into action?

 

[Hipster Duck]

I would say that we are going in the right direction, but very slowly and we're spending way too much money for relatively little gain.

The best projects are the ones that receive the least fanfare: upgrading GO's railway infrastructure in key chokepoints; Brampton's Acceleride and, to a certain extent, the 407 Transitway. On the whole, these aren't that expensive and they will perform small wonders for regional transportation. In fact, I think that if there will ever be any per capita ridership increase over the next 20 years, it will mainly come from these projects.

On the other hand, we have the looming idiocy of Transit City - perhaps the biggest white elephant in Canadian history (take that, Mirabel!).

 

[ShonTron]

In terms of public transit improvements, really, I think Brampton deserves the "Most Improved" award from its huge mindset change over the past few years. In September, it will have some of the best weekend service of any Ontario transit agency (most routes 30 min or better all day), and even midnight shift runs. Acceleride doesn't make headlines, but it is the future of suburban transit. Hurontario/Main Street is one of the most progressive transit studies out there, and good on both Mississauga and Brampton on that. While York was first out of the gate, look west.

 

[Hipster Duck]

It definitely deserves the most improved award. And the cabbageheads at GO are starting to move in the right direction, too, even though they are slowly easing their way into the idea that they are a public transit provider the way one slowly eases their way into a cold pool.

 

[Amphibius]

One thing I love about Mississuaga's and Brampton's systems are how reliable their route schedules are. You could time it on a watch, the precise minute your bus is slated to arrive and there it is. Nothing like the bunching/stalling mess we often have here where if you miss one bus, good luck getting to work on time.

 

[unimaginative2]

I think it's a bit hit and miss. It's fantastic that we're now spending more on public transit that we have in history. It's unfortunate that a lot of that money is being spent a bit dubiously. The biggest problem is that the kind of comprehensive regional planning promised by Metrolinx has been really disappointing. MoveOntario2020 was a grab bag of all the projects that various municipalities had talked around at some point. When Metrolinx came along, they were supposed to start from scratch and produce a real regional transit plan that was cohesive and made sense. Some of the drafts that we saw along the way were promising, but when the final report came out, they had basically reverted to the individual municipal plans of MoveOntario2020. I think McGuinty really made the right move getting the municipal pols off the Metrolinx board, but it may have been too late.

I agree with Hipster Duck that the most valuable transit projects are probably the least heralded, starting with the GO improvements. Right now, the plans have been a bit haphazard, but at least they're moving in the right direction. What I'd really like to see, though, is a comprehensive 20-year plan to introduce real regional rail on all the routes currently served by GO. By this I mean dedicated tracks, electrification, and a minimum service standard of at least every 20 minutes, all day. It could even have new branding, like VIVA. That could really get people excited about the project. Right now, nobody's ever heard of it (other than NIMBYs in Weston).

 

[emacs]

one major gap i see is the lack of a dedicated rail between Pearson Airport and Union Station. in the past year i've traveled to a half dozen cities across the world and found public transit systems in Tokyo and London UK, for example, to be quite a convenient and effective means to travel across the city. public transit in the GTA has a very, very long way to match those service levels.

 

[BMO]

one major gap i see is the lack of a dedicated rail between Pearson Airport and Union Station. in the past year i've traveled to a half dozen cities across the world and found public transit systems in Tokyo and London UK, for example, to be quite a convenient and effective means to travel across the city. public transit in the GTA has a very, very long way to match those service levels.

EXACTLY! i think what throws off many people from transit in Toronto, is that many don't know when to expect a bus or a streetcar if they're waiting at a stop., it could be 10 mins it could be 20 ppl rarely know, if they don't take the route often, I think one step that would improve the system dramatically would be to put next vehicle arrival signs on stops and ridership will increase and improve.

 

[lead82]

The level of improvement is merely cosmetic at this point. The TTC has added some vehicles information but on subways, the most reliable system, where that is not needed, since a train always arrives at worst-case every 5-6 minutes.

There are many serious problems with transit in the GTA, some of which have already been mentioned, like lack of integration between systems, silly fare borders (Steeles), etc..

One major thing that I find is strange in Toronto specifically is the stupidity and closeness of transit stops be it subway, tram or bus. For subways, it slows the through speed and reduces the average speed. Not a major problem, but creates more stations and higher maintenance costs all to serve a relatively small area.

For trams/buses, the stops are on average way too close. The most annoying is having stops on both sides of an intersection. That to me is the most retarded thing I've seen. Its definitely a Toronto thing. People here complain surface transit is slow, but they also start bitching if TTC wants to space out stops as they wanted to do with Transit City.

While being close to a transit stop is important, what is more important in Toronto specifically is that fact that Toronto is NOT a small city. Distances are huge. Putting stops close together (250m or less) causes the average speed of surface vehicles go down to a crawl.

The next major issue is lack of rapid transit. Our rapid transit system consists of the GO rail lines and the 2 subway lines. All essentially are there to get you to Union.

Reality: Not everyone wants to go to Union. Most of these GO transit improvements are meant to increase capacity to Union. While some capacity is definitely needed, what is needed even more is new lines that criss-cross the GTA, through mid-town, up-town, north of town, etc..

To me, Transit City is NOT rapid transit, lets admin to what it really is, it's an improved local transit system, with all-door boarding, separated ROW, and supposed signal priority.

Rapid transit requires rapid speed. 23km/hr for Transit City = slow. Rapid transit needs to be at least 30-40km/hr within the city (subway), and 50-80km/hr (regional rail) suburbs to city or inter suburb.

We are getting some improvements, but even at this pace, we will never catch up. Projects take too long to be planned, designed, consulted, financed, finalized plans, finalized designs, built.

Main problem here is that projects rely on unstable funding and require too much consultation. We over-consult the public on everything. While some consultation is needed, too much leads to trying to please all steak-holders, and that's not possible. Compromises need to be made, and projects need to be built fast.

My biggest fear right now is that the city will be crippled by Transit City construction as it will not take 3-4 years per project, but will likely take 6-10 years due to complaints about noise, and stiff labour unions.

We need to built them at break-neck pace, which means 24hr construction, where warranted to get these projected completed ASAP. Projects here take way too long to start construction, and construction time takes way too long here considering the high cost we pay for it.

 

[BMO]

amen, I visited Dubai, and construction does not stop there, not to mention those labourers get paid peanuts for what they do, and don't have the advantage of all the mahcines we use in North America alot of stuff is still done manually over there. Ofcourse weather is a factor in this, but I just get really upset when it is perfect weather outside and a construction site is empty, it is such a waste of money and time.

 

[lordmandeep]

I think a major problem is the TTC unions who are stuck in the 70's.


Oppose to change and keep on protecting people who do not deserve to be workings at Mcdonalds.


TTC know seems to be getter smarter and younger employees.