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Provincial review of the Ontario Food Terminal

interchange42 said:
They've been spending millions on it to expand and modernize. What's so out-of-date?

No it does not make sense to move it to ease congestion. If you move it further away from the bulk of its users which are the small grocers in the city (not the chains) then you add congestion (and pollution) as those mom & pop operations have to drive further. Suggesting that it be located by a highway that cots to drive on, will just add to the cost of food too.

42
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Completely agree.

But I'll add, were there pressure to monetize some of the land, there is sufficient room to do so on-site with a bit of creativity.

Regular car parking could shift underground, the main building could add an extra floor, with gentle ramps allowing truck access on both levels; and you could probably free up 1/3 of the land.

That said, looking the strip/box plaza next door, I think were at least a decade, if not two or more away from that type of investment being justified.
 
gabe said:
Not just small grocers, thousands of restaurants in and around the downtown core rely on produce delivery from the food terminal as well.
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Well then let's put the stock yards, poultry farms, slaughter houses there too. Because god forbid the restaurants downtown have to go all the way to Vaughan or Mississauga to get their stuff
 
Isotack said:
Well then let's put the stock yards, poultry farms, slaughter houses there too. Because god forbid the restaurants downtown have to go all the way to Vaughan or Mississauga to get their stuff
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Doug Ford will enjoy explaining why they should have to go all the way to Vaughan or Mississauga to get their stuff every time he dines out if they announce a move. Dinners will never be the same for him. He'll also be the toast of every BIA in the City when their members get wind of this.

42
 
Northern Light said:
Completely agree.

But I'll add, were there pressure to monetize some of the land, there is sufficient room to do so on-site with a bit of creativity.

Regular car parking could shift underground, the main building could add an extra floor, with gentle ramps allowing truck access on both levels; and you could probably free up 1/3 of the land.

That said, looking the strip/box plaza next door, I think were at least a decade, if not two or more away from that type of investment being justified.
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I'd be happy with the Queensway and Park Lawn frontages civilized by new development, but it would be tricky. More than just parking would have to be moved underground, as the area under the parking deck is used for produce trading.

Assuming it were new housing built along PL and QW, it might have to be in single-loaded corridor buildings as the busiest time of day at the Terminal is in the wee hours, typically before dawn: residents would not want to be woken up at 5 AM every day by the business going on below. Lines ups of trucks to get in, mostly in the mornings, might be tricky to manage too… but a design that could separate the business nuisances from new residents would go a long way to improving both streets through there.

42
 
interchange42 said:
I'd be happy with the Queensway and Park Lawn frontages civilized by new development, but it would be tricky. More than just parking would have to be moved underground, as the area under the parking deck is used for produce trading.

Assuming it were new housing built along PL and QW, it might have to be in single-loaded corridor buildings as the busiest time of day at the Terminal is in the wee hours, typically before dawn: residents would not want to be woken up at 5 AM every day by the business going on below. Lines ups of trucks to get in, mostly in the mornings, might be tricky to manage too… but a design that could separate the business nuisances from new residents would go a long way to improving both streets through there.

42
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Forget housing - perhaps retail (food focused?) and office above a terminal podium might be a better option with the relocated GO just around the corner.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Forget housing - perhaps retail (food focused?) and office above a terminal podium might be a better option with the relocated GO just around the corner.

AoD
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I don't think you'd get the density you need to make it economically feasible with just retail, and I assume First Capital will try to see one not-very-big office building as part of the mix at the Mr. Christies site across the Gardiner, but in the meantime you have all the unbuilt commercial buildings along Lake Shore in Humber Bay Shores looking for some interest too. Yes, an office building on the Food Terminal Site would be better situated re: long-distance transit than Lake Shore is, but still, it's be a tough sell. I remain convinced that innovative housing lining The Queensway and Park Lawn is the only way to transform those long stretches of road into city streets.

42
 
Amare said:
If true would be single handedly be one of the most short-sighted and illogical decisions any provincial government has made in this province's history:
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So in other words, par for the course for this government.
 
Made a comment in another thread:

jje1000 said:
I would say that there's potential to make the property more productive than it is currently- I think there's definitely a huge opportunity to make use of the air rights above the Terminal, to rebuild the terminal with new equipment, to make the site more attractive, as well as to take advantage of the existing systems/infrastructure to introduce a more public component to the property (a more accessible market?).

That being said, I would be opposed to moving the Terminal elsewhere as I think it occupies an important and accessible location for Toronto restaurateurs/small grocers, and presents itself as a reminder of Toronto's real day-to-day logistical connection to its hinterlands and international produce sources.

Traditional public markets (especially St. Lawrence) are increasingly doing a poor job of this as they've been gradually turning towards tourism and more expensive items.

I wonder if the Terminal could be rebuilt in gradual phases, with a terminal component occupying the ground levels, commercial lining some of the edges, and residential above?
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Towered said:
So in other words, par for the course for this government.
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Hard to say, the current government has made many decisions that have made very little sense and are completely irrational. This one would be in the Top 5 of making absolutely 0 sense for every single party involved, while shafting 90% of Ontarians whether they know it or not.

For instance remember how the previous Liberal government went off and sold part of Hydro One off despite everyone knowing it wouldn't benefit anyone and most people were against it? This one is on the same scale.
 
interchange42 said:
Doug Ford will enjoy explaining why they should have to go all the way to Vaughan or Mississauga to get their stuff every time he dines out if they announce a move. Dinners will never be the same for him. He'll also be the toast of every BIA in the City when their members get wind of this.

42
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I wonder if there was the same discussion in the '50's when it moved out of the St Lawrence Market area?

I support Ontario produce. They should be paying a land lease based on the FMV of the land & building they are sitting on to the extent the wholesalers are not selling Ontario goods.
 
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