News   Nov 26, 2021
 2.7K     2 
News   Nov 26, 2021
 524     0 
News   Nov 26, 2021
 3.3K     0 

Proposed renaming of Dundas Street

zang

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,835
Reaction score
2,164
Let's start with this park...
ford2.jpg

From link. After all, he was only a one-term backbencher from 1995 to 1999 in the Mike Harris government.
A mediocre politician at best, with a bunch of lousy kids, but is that reason to rename it? No known scandals, at worst an a-hole father.

Was he instrumental in Ipperwash/Dudley George's murder? Or the Walkerton scandal? Nope. So, please don't make the false equivalency of a meh politician to a man who singlehandedly quashed the immediate abolition of slavery in the British Empire.
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
9,991
Reaction score
3,748
Who mentioned tobacco?
I did. See above.

Zang, clearly you’re triggered by any opposing views on this topic that’s so close to your heart, but I think we all need to take a shot every time you close with a rhetorical question.

What say you @W. K. Lis will you raise a glass with me? 🥃🥃 Oh dammit, now I’ve done one.
 
Last edited:

lenaitch

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
3,404
Reaction score
3,103
Stop naming sh!t after a$$holes.
And I would argue we don't . . . anymore. The way things are these days, governments and institutions are taking a risk naming anything after anybody

And if a$$holery is the criteria, I've got my list here somewhere.

On a perhaps lighter note, although I'm sure it offends someone, this one always struck me as a tad odd, considering it's a relatively new area:

Untitled.jpg
 

UrbanFervour

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
757
Reaction score
467
Do the people of Toronto actually want to rename Dundas?
No. There is absolutely no indication the general population wants this change.

As mentioned before in this thread, a petition of 40,000 names made it to the desks of City staff. That represents 0.05% of the population influencing a back-office of unelected bureaucrats.

PC-progressive names now adorn the city's laneways and perhaps this gives them the opportunity to leave their mark on a more high-profile swathe of the city?
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
9,991
Reaction score
3,748
No. There is absolutely no indication the general population wants this change. PC-progressive names now adorn the city's laneways and perhaps this gives them the opportunity to leave their mark on a more high-profile swathe of the city?
Considering that Dundas St. covers not just Toronto but also Peel and Halton, and given his penchant for municipal meddling, it wouldn‘t surprise me if Ford gets involved to quash it.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
20,679
Reaction score
10,371
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
What about the MacdonaldCartier Freeway? AKA Highway 401.

What about naming, or rather numbering Toronto's arterial roads? Dundas Street West (west of Kipling Avenue), Bloor Street and Danforth Avenue becoming Road 5, Yonge Street becomes Road 11?
 

MisterF

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,432
Reaction score
2,356
IF the City plans to rename major elements of the the local geography it only makes sense that the Mississaugas of the Credit and the other local First Nations should be given the opportunity to do the renaming. We say this has been their land for thousands of years and we are living on it - so let them name things rather than projecting & celebrating whatever the current colonialist narrative is on their ancestral lands (whether it be 19th century British Imperialism or 21st century Mulit-culti Woke-ism).

In many cases this will simply mean giving the Toronto area back its original place-names. The Humber and Don Rivers, for example, were called the Cobechenonk and the Wonscotonach respectively. I would argue these are good candidates for renaming.
To extend your reasoning, the Mississaugas shouldn't rename the street because they stole the land from the Iroquois. And the Iroquois shouldn't rename the street because they stole the land from the Wendat/Huron...
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
9,991
Reaction score
3,748
To extend your reasoning, the Mississaugas shouldn't rename the street because they stole the land from the Iroquois. And the Iroquois shouldn't rename the street because they stole the land from the Wendat/Huron...
I’m an indigenous English but my Anglo-Saxon forebears pushed the Celtic Britons out. Humans are always fighting each other for land and resources.
 

ceaz40

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
224
Reaction score
84
I hope as a half aboriginal person, making me Métis, but my aboriginal family heritage is the oldest documented with the UN (due to a massive ongoing land claim) i hope you will hear my point of view. I’m descended from 4 tribes. My 1630’s great grandma was a woman who had a relationship with Jean Nicolet and ultimately gave birth to a child by him. He was an explorer credited with the founding of Wisconsin. One of my great grandmas was a Pawnee woman held as a slave in Montreal. I’ve had older relatives who were victimized by the residential school system. Though I have pronounced indigenous features, I’m blond and blue eyed. I experienced hearing the horrible remarks made about people that my near and dear grandparents resembled. To my point….I don’t think names should be changed. Rather than look at them as honouring those that don’t deserve to be celebrated, I think that they can be a persistent and long lasting reminder to what has happened and cause for reflection. The Hudson Bay Company did its best to destroy indigenous people. I still shop there. It’s not the same company. The British crown has historically been horrible. I do like the Queen, though after her I feel I’m done with it. The names of certain sports teams and vehicles need to be altered. Until this hit the media, I had no idea who Dundas was. It never occurred to me the street was named after a man. Let the name remain….to remind us that though the man should be forgotten, the name is synonymous with his actions. It teaches us all not to always celebrate but be mindful of the past. Though it’s not named after a person that I'm aware of, Auschwitz hasn’t changed its name.
 

UrbanFervour

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
757
Reaction score
467
To extend your reasoning, the Mississaugas shouldn't rename the street because they stole the land from the Iroquois. And the Iroquois shouldn't rename the street because they stole the land from the Wendat/Huron...

Reread my post. "Other first nations" includes the Ojibwe/Anishnaabe, Wendat/Huron, Chippewa, Haudenosaunee and so forth.

Either the First Nations are consulted, or the same "City Staff" recommending the change will likely identify an obscure BIPOC non-binary experiencer-of-enslavement who set foot on Nova Scotian soil 200 years ago en route to the Caribbean to name it after to remind us all how racist and horrible Canada is.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
15,679
Reaction score
32,051
Location
Toronto/EY
Matt Elliott in today's Star comes out w/an opinion I could get behind on all this............it amounts to .........sure, change Dundas.......but only if your going to make real changes too.

Article link: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...in-toronto-heres-an-idea-that-might-help.html

Excerpts:

1626178342748.png


1626178375046.png


1626178392381.png


Right.

My only quibble with Matt would that he came up with a total cost number that is too low; he explains how he got it.

He fails to understand a variety of costs baked into renaming are fixed (not per km); and that others are affected by the number of business addresses along them etc. etc.

But that's fine........because we're on the same wave length.

The money is a concern........but not a be-all, end-all. But spending the money on stuff that doesn't actually change anything; AND, failing to spend the money that would, that is a problem.
 

Top