Former President Donald Trump's United States of America

[Johnny Au]

Trump's threatened attack on Iranian cultural sites could be a war crime if carried out | CNN

After an al-Qaeda affiliated group destroyed ancient religious monuments in Timbuktu, Mali, in 2012, the International Criminal Court took on a unique criminal case: prosecuting cultural destruction.

www.cnn.com

It won't be the first time the United States sanctioned vandalism of a major cultural heritage site.

The four in-situ statues that constitute Mount Rushmore were carved on the face of a mountain sacred to a Native American group from the area and the United States Army drove out that native American group.

Apparently, vandalism of major cultural heritage sites is only condoned if there is enough military power and public support for said military power. In other words, might makes right. The winners get to manipulate history.

All of that is unfortunate.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It won't be the first time the United States sanctioned vandalism of a major cultural heritage site.

I’m British, we have whole museums dedicated to pillaged and vandalized cultural heritage.

 

[reactx]

Husband of Zaghari-Ratcliffe criticises Trump over Suleimani killing

Richard Ratcliffe, whose wife is in Tehran jail, says Donald Trump ‘playing fast and loose’ with law

www.theguardian.com

Even after Iraq, too many US elites still think war is a bloodless chess game | Moustafa Bayoumi

The problem isn’t that war is hell – the problem is that war has become mundane. Why does it feel like 2003 all over again?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

Even after Iraq, too many US elites still think war is a bloodless chess game | Moustafa Bayoumi

The problem isn’t that war is hell – the problem is that war has become mundane. Why does it feel like 2003 all over again?

www.theguardian.com

Because for them it is.

 

[kEiThZ]

Not a fan of Trump. Not sure, if carrying out this assassination on Iraqi soil was right. But I don't disagree with take him out. Qassem Soleimani was brazen. Imagine, for example, a Soviet general flying into Saigon to meet with the Viet Cong during the Vietnam war. Nobody targeted the Soviets during the Vietnam war. But they weren't foolish enough to flaunt it either.

Then there's options for Iran. Which are few. They are faced with an economic crisis at home, their proxy network under stress and an American President who seemingly has fewer limits than they thought. They can ramp up attacks, harass ships in the Gulf and jack up the price of oil. But that would probably invite devastating air strikes from the US. I was concerned right after the attack. But in the days since, the more I read, the more I'm starting to think Trump may have just gotten damn lucky on making the right call on this one.

More broadly, the geopolitical question here is whether the rest of the world wants another Pakistan. That country attained nuclear capabilities in the late 80s. Since then, they've used their nuclear umbrella to provide cover for massive support of insurgent and terrorist networks against their neighbours and around the world. They even got to kill NATO troops in Afghanistan and get aid as a reward. A nuclear armed Iran would be substantially more dangerous. Just think of what their proxies would do all over the world, but especially to Israel and Saudi Arabia. And what that would do to global security.

 

[kEiThZ]

Even after Iraq, too many US elites still think war is a bloodless chess game | Moustafa Bayoumi

The problem isn’t that war is hell – the problem is that war has become mundane. Why does it feel like 2003 all over again?

www.theguardian.com

I get the general concern about sleepwalking into yet another Middle Eastern war, but where's the concern about what Maj Gen Soleimanei was doing to Iraq and other countries in the Middle East? His actions were so bad, Iraq's Shias have attacked Iran's diplomatic posts in Iraq.

Iraq unrest: Protesters set fire to Iranian consulate in Najaf

Demonstrators stormed the building, in a dramatic escalation after weeks of anti-government protests.

www.bbc.com

Basra protests: Rioters attack Iran consulate

A protester is killed amid anger over government corruption and a lack of basic public services.

www.bbc.com

Here's a good article that everyone should read to provide some balanced view about this situation:

Why the Death of an Iranian Commander Won’t Mean World War III

The U.S. dealt a major blow in taking out Iran’s imperial strategist. But the mullahs’ next move likely won’t be a dramatic escalation.

www.politico.com

 

[old boy]

Not a fan of Trump. Not sure, if carrying out this assassination on Iraqi soil was right. But I don't disagree with take him out. Qassem Soleimani was brazen. Imagine, for example, a Soviet general flying into Saigon to meet with the Viet Cong during the Vietnam war. Nobody targeted the Soviets during the Vietnam war. But they weren't foolish enough to flaunt it either.

Then there's options for Iran. Which are few. They are faced with an economic crisis at home, their proxy network under stress and an American President who seemingly has fewer limits than they thought. They can ramp up attacks, harass ships in the Gulf and jack up the price of oil. But that would probably invite devastating air strikes from the US. I was concerned right after the attack. But in the days since, the more I read, the more I'm starting to think Trump may have just gotten damn lucky on making the right call on this one.

More broadly, the geopolitical question here is whether the rest of the world wants another Pakistan. That country attained nuclear capabilities in the late 80s. Since then, they've used their nuclear umbrella to provide cover for massive support of insurgent and terrorist networks against their neighbours and around the world. They even got to kill NATO troops in Afghanistan and get aid as a reward. A nuclear armed Iran would be substantially more dangerous. Just think of what their proxies would do all over the world, but especially to Israel and Saudi Arabia. And what that would do to global security.

Anybody that begins with " Not a fan of Trump " usually ends with an exoneration of some sort of errant behaviour. Trump's making of the alleged " right call" may have the opposite affect you wish for. It was all so easy in the simpler, good old days when we knew the good guys all wore the white hats .

 

[W. K. Lis]

Iranian Presidential Adviser Posted A List Showing Locations For All Trump’s Properties

From link.

Over the weekend, an adviser to Iranian President Hassan Rouhani reportedly hinted at striking Donald Trump’s properties in response to the targeted airstrikes that took out the high ranking military commander Qassem Soleimani.

Hesameddin Ashena, one of the top advisers to the Iranian President, made a post on Twitter linking to a Forbes article which listed all the properties in the Trump real estate empire, including his hotels in New York, Las Vegas, Chicago and his resorts and golf courses that are spread out across the US and Britain.

Trump’s now infamous Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, where the president was staying when he ordered the airstrikes on Iran last week is also on the list. Of course, all of the sites on this list are a matter of public record, but the fact that these locations were cryptically posted by an Iranian presidential advisor has some US military officials very concerned.

However, in another Tweet, Ashena clarified that his anger is with the Trump administration, not the American people.

Iranian lawmaker MP Abolfazl Abutorabi called for a strike on the White House this week, in response to President Donald Trump’s order to take out Soleimani. Around the same time that those comments were made, an organizer of the general’s funeral put a price of 80 million dollars on Trump’s head, suggesting that every Iranian could give one dollar towards the bounty for the person who took out the US president.

As we reported previously, a group claiming to be Iranian hackers has infiltrated the website of a small and mostly unknown US government agency and then replaced the home page with a post titled “Iranian Hackers!” which showed a photoshopped image depicting Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and the Iranian flag, and a bloodied image of US President Donald Trump, who appears to be getting punched in the mouth by an Iranian military official.

Diplomacy between the United States and Iran is completely deteriorating. This weekend, Iran’s state television broadcaster reported that the country’s government will be backing out of the 2015 nuclear pact that was made with the United States. Following the numerous strikes on sites in Iraq, the Iraqi government has voted to expel the remaining US troops from the country, however, this is not the first time that this has happened, and it is very likely that the United States will refuse to leave.

In fact, US President Donald Trump suggested that he would place extreme sanctions on Iraq if they forced the troops to leave the country. Furthermore, if the troops do leave, there is no guarantee that the US will stop conducting drone strikes in the region, because there are many other places, like Pakistan, for example, where the US is conducting drone strikes despite the fact that there is no official conflict there. Pakistan is not alone either, there are numerous countries throughout Africa and the middle east where the United States is conducting drone strikes and other military operations in places where they are not welcomed.

I think the property insurance premiums for Trump's properties just went way up!

 

[Johnny Au]

If Trump were either voted out or thoroughly impeached, the next president (regardless of party affiliation) will have to deal with a potential World War III.

 

[kEiThZ]

Iranian Presidential Adviser Posted A List Showing Locations For All Trump’s Properties

From link.

I think the property insurance premiums for Trump's properties just went way up!

Ha ha. Elsewhere, I was saying exactly this. A guy who made a career out of owning a bunch of soft targets really shouldn't be threatening cultural sites.

What's the rates going to be at Trump properties worldwide if Hezbollah drops a few fireworks in their parking lots?

 

[kEiThZ]

Anybody that begins with " Not a fan of Trump " usually ends with an exoneration of some sort of errant behaviour. Trump's making of the alleged " right call" may have the opposite affect you wish for.

You can go through my post history and ascertain whether or not I'm a Trump supporter. For the record, I think the impeachment was accurate and he should be removed. And I think rule of law in the US is in grave danger of he's not voted out in November.

It should be okay to think Trump is incompetent and still say he got lucky. And even feel conflicted about this call (as I am).

He got lucky with this call. I'm not sure he understands the full ramification of his actions. And if reports are to be allowed, the Staff Officers had pitched this as the most extreme option. They never expected him to pick it. And it's increasingly looking like the mad man thing worked this one time. Iran's options are looking more limited each day. And Trump took a guy off the field that two previous Presidents wanted taken out, who is responsible for several hundred US casualties in Iraq. I would have agreed with, and wish Obama made the same call.

I am less bothered by his assassination than the manner in which they did it. If the Iraqi PM's comments are to be believed and Soleimani was lured to Iraq under false pretenses than the breach of diplomatic protocol and norms is truly offensive. If he was simply being his brazen self and the Americans got him? Well that's how warfare works. No different than an Iranian sniper, say taking out an American general (or other senior NATO officer) in Iraq.

Geopolitics and war is messy. Especially so in that part of the world. I am not even one to say that Soleimani was a "terrorist". We have guys on our payroll in Canada and the Americans have 60 000 folks with the exact same job description: Irregular Warfare. It's how the game is played. The Iranians simply grew more and more brazen with American restraint over the years, going all the way back to the Bush administration. It's unfortunate for them that Trump is more reckless and less predictable.

It should be okay to feel conflicted about it. I was far less approving when I first heard of this. But the more I read. And the more time passes, it's looking increasingly like Trump may have gotten lucky. If it devolves into World War III, you have my assurances that I'll come back here and retract my confidence.

It was all so easy in the simpler, good old days when we knew the good guys all wore the white hats .

Ah yes. Anybody who thinks something Trump did could be right, is KKK. I'd take it more offensively, if it I didn't find the assertion absurdly hilarious as a brown immigrant, who happened to grow up in the region being discussed. But you do you....

 

[kEiThZ]

If Trump were either voted out or thoroughly impeached, the next president (regardless of party affiliation) will have to deal with a potential World War III.

Stop with the hysterics. There will be no World War III. Would a war in Iran be absolutely devastating and destabilizing to that part of the world? Absolutely. Would it lead to a nuclear exchange between the major powers (ie. World War III)? NO.

The real problem continues to be Iran's nuclear ambitions. Obama's nuclear deal was fantastic. But it came with a 15 year end date. That was can kicking as best that Obama could manage it. So confrontation between the US and Iran was always inevitable. And it comes down to some very basic facts:

1) It's not in the interest of the West, Israel and the Sunni Arab world for Iran to get nukes. Iran's missiles can already reach a good chunk of Europe:

https://i1.wp.com/missilethreat.csis.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/IranMissiles_update_09.jpg?ssl=1

2) Iran wants nukes.

3) Iran also wants to be a regional power and sees no problem wielding its proxies to achieve that goal.

War can be prevented if somebody can square the above circle. If not the US will do what it takes to stop the Iranian building nukes. Because they don't want another Pakistan or North Korea. And the Europeans, Arabs and Israelis will all quietly phone in their support while publicly talking about their disappointment at American belligerence.

 

[old boy]

Stop with the hysterics. There will be no World War III. Would a war in Iran be absolutely devastating and destabilizing to that part of the world? Absolutely. Would it lead to a nuclear exchange between the major powers (ie. World War III)? NO.

The real problem continues to be Iran's nuclear ambitions. Obama's nuclear deal was fantastic. But it came with a 15 year end date. That was can kicking as best that Obama could manage it. So confrontation between the US and Iran was always inevitable. And it comes down to some very basic facts:

1) It's not in the interest of the West, Israel and the Sunni Arab world for Iran to get nukes. Iran's missiles can already reach a good chunk of Europe:

https://i1.wp.com/missilethreat.csis.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/IranMissiles_update_09.jpg?ssl=1

2) Iran wants nukes.

3) Iran also wants to be a regional power and sees no problem wielding its proxies to achieve that goal.

War can be prevented if somebody can square the above circle. If not the US will do what it takes to stop the Iranian building nukes. Because they don't want another Pakistan or North Korea. And the Europeans, Arabs and Israelis will all quietly phone in their support while publicly talking about their disappointment at American belligerence.

" The real problem continues to be Iran's nuclear ambitions. " Really ?

 

[kEiThZ]

" The real problem continues to be Iran's nuclear ambitions. " Really ?

Yes.

Or do you think adding nuclear weapons to the mess that is the Middle East is no big deal?

I for one don't want to see Israel openly declare their capability following an Iranian declaration or nuclear test. I don't want to see the Saudis weaponize their nascent nuclear program:

Saudi nuclear program accelerates, raising tensions in a volatile region

On the outskirts of Riyadh, a building site is quickly being transformed into the birthplace of Saudi Arabia's quest for nuclear power, a bid that has sparked concern in the US Congress and fury in Tehran.

www.cnn.com

And I don't want to see Iran become another Pakistan or North Korea using their nuclear weapons umbrella to protect them from consequences for everything from terrorism to kidnapping to money laundering to nuclear proliferation itself.

 

[old boy]

Yes.

Or do you think adding nuclear weapons to the mess that is the Middle East is no big deal?

I for one don't want to see Israel openly declare their capability following an Iranian declaration or nuclear test. I don't want to see the Saudis weaponize their nascent nuclear program:

Saudi nuclear program accelerates, raising tensions in a volatile region

On the outskirts of Riyadh, a building site is quickly being transformed into the birthplace of Saudi Arabia's quest for nuclear power, a bid that has sparked concern in the US Congress and fury in Tehran.

www.cnn.com

And I don't want to see Iran become another Pakistan or North Korea using their nuclear weapons umbrella to protect them from consequences for everything from terrorism to kidnapping to money laundering to nuclear proliferation itself.

And neither do I. There are already too many nuclear weapons in too many opposing hands.
But neither do I wish to sit on pins and needles fearing the extreme response from Trump to a provocation that may not even come directly from Iran. Hell, even his advisors, if we can use that term anymore, were shocked when he chose the most extreme response offered in going after the general. His recklessness puts us all in jeopardy.